Let's talk about Champ Select

First Riot Post
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Crowcaine

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
We want to take some time today to talk about Champion Select.

1) What are the problems?
2) What are some potential solutions?

The player behavior team has been running research on Champ Select and we agree that Champ Select is currently not a great environment and does not set teams up for success. We’ve all experienced Champ Selects that have erupted in arguments and had that sinking feeling that the game is lost before it even started. In saying this, there are plenty of Champ Select lobbies that are awesome and being positive and cooperative in every lobby does help; however, being positive by itself will not solve the problems in Champ Select and we don’t expect it to.

Solving player behavior problems in League of Legends requires collaboration between us and players and we haven’t done our part in Champ Select yet. As you can imagine, the problems (and any potential solutions) are complicated.

Something we’re seeing in our research is the influence of context.

But you know what?

This player's behavior isn’t toxic. He’s just like any one of us--we all have our bad days.

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Let’s break down this scenario into some of the problems that we’d like to solve in Champ Select:

1) Real-Life Context | This scenario really illustrates how context outside the game can influence behavior inside the game. Traditionally, game studios don’t design or solve for context. Or can they?

2) In-Game Context | This scenario illustrates the conflict between Pick Order and Call Order. When there are literally no guidelines, at best, half of the players believe in Pick Order and half believe in Call Order—we’ve created a situation where conflicts are expected rather than rare.

3) Time Pressure | From psychology, we know that time pressure sometimes twists context in hostile ways. Players in Champ Select are effectively trying to negotiate with each other over individual goals (i.e, what role I want to play this game) that overlap with team goals (i.e, given this set of teammates, what’s the best strategy for us to win?). Studies suggest that throwing time pressure in there is like adding fuel to the fire—the end result is more disagreements and lower quality of negotiations.

4) Cognitive Biases | Hopefully davin will talk more about this, but people show cognitive bias in many ways. For example, many of us enter Champ Select thinking we are the best at whatever role we want to play—this is statistically impossible; however, there’s no reason to trust any of the strangers in the lobby. This really isn’t the players’ fault, it’s simply being human.

These are some major problems with Champ Select that we’ve identified in our research. So what’s next? A lot of players have suggested the following:

1) Vote Kick | Players want the ability to vote kick toxic players from Champ Select.
2) WoW Dungeon Finder | Players want the ability to queue up for a particular role like “Healer” and “DPS” and placed into a Champ Select with a team
3) Prisoner’s Island | Players want matchmaking to pair toxic players with toxic players, and positive players with positive players.

What are some pros and cons to these ideas? Would they work for League?
Downvoted because I don't like it when people mindlessly upvote reds for no reason.


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I R B GOOD YA

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Please don't make a vote kick option.


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The Committee

Senior Member

03-13-2013

can we stop ordering picks by elo? it fluctuates so much that usually its not making much of a difference in the context of matchmaking


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No Pawns Dawns

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

In response to the 3 possible suggestions:

1) Yes - This is my favorite because generally if there is a problem in pregame lobby it boils down to one particular unfriendly summeoner.

2) Maybe - This has potential but it also has some cons. Matchmaking would take a longer time to find matches. Also, this kind of solidifies the current meta. It would be difficult to run any kind of crazy strat...but alas, this doesn't really happen in solo queue anyways. At least not at my elo.

3) Leaning towards yes. This can work if done correctly. Maybe allow the toxic players some kind of chance off that god forsaken island. I'm sure you all at Riot can figure it out.

As for the problems, a lot of it is due to no statistics being available to see what your teammates are capable of and the lack of time. Some kind of stats screen could potentially help figure out lanes / champs / team comp (poke or aoe, etc) but then again it could cause further rage. All I know is generally I see two people pick the same lane, they both lolking each other and start flexing and puffing their chests. There needs to be some kind of information available so we don't have to lolking each other and go through the spiel of Tosh.O's "I'm better than you, na na na na boo boo, stick your head in doodoo"

That's about all I've got. That could help with problems 3) Time and 4) Cognitive bias, but 1) is obviously out of anyone's control and 2)....I have no idea how to fix this one completely.


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Pryotra

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

So, In my eyes, prisoners Island does not help alleviate this problem, and what little it may help is circumstantial. Honestly, I think the prisoners Island is a slippery slope Idea, and don't think it is a good avenue to solve this problem. That being said, it would help fight what I call "Toxic smurfing" AKA when a banned player keeps playing on a smurf.

As far as the dungeon finder idea, I think it would not work if copypasta'd straight over, but a variation might work. For example, If you could find a way to display prefrences, or just list general roles (support, ADC, Jungler, Mage, assassin, bruiser, tank) with each one ranked by how we feel we play said roles, then that might help show preferences without making the meta set in stone. Honestly, this could just as easily be ignored, but it also may help some situations. I don't like the idea that you call a role, or you signup for a role, because then it not only solidifies an already strong meta, but it causes other problems. Going top taric? "GG, obviously trolling." Someone decides last second that they want a different lane/get forced into a matchup they know they have problems with? Its now much more difficult to react. Preferences would be nice, but too much heavy handed enforcement would not be a welcome change in my eyes.

As for the last suggestion, the votekick feature. This one has merits, but I see potential for abuse from 4 man premades. Honestly, I think it could work, but premades only get 1 vote, as a whole, and you need at least 3 votes to kick someone. Or something along those lines. That being said, if it was just a lobby eject, and nothing more, I might be okay with a 4 man trolling me out of the lobby. The only downside I see visably is ranked. This would, in a sense, reintroduce a new way to dodge without penalty. I think you would be hard pressed to find a way to make it work without either buffing troll 4mans, or returning a way to dodge. However, it would be much harder to abuse, as all 4 of your teammates would have to agree to help you dodge.

I usually will pick Heimer, but am completely cool with going to any lane (or the jungle, I can do that too). That means that a poor implementation of an idea will most likely hurt me in the long run. Please make wise choices, I am honestly not a toxic player, and work with people alot. To be punished by a system designed to reduce toxicity would be a cruel joke, at best.

Edit: I personally think that most people, when they want a certain role, actually just want to play a certain character/a character from a certain group. That might be something to consider.


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ShadyElf

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

I like the WoW dungeon finder idea, but there might be problems associated with queue times where people wanted to play top or mid (in my experience the most popular roles) end up waiting a long time. Vote kick will be abused I feel.


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Xiao Rettousei

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I have an idea for you lyte,

A queu system that you have to select jungler/support/adc/mid/top BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT

Once you've selected a character , any character not fitting to the category will be unable to be used (you can't queu for support then say lol wanted quick queu mid or fid)

If you support , you're gonna have only support champions avaible.


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AutumnXi

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Member

03-13-2013

#3 is a very good method in my opinion. It really does give toxic players a taste of their own medicine. Toxic players would probably not want to stay in that place so they will clean up their act and continue to stay positive in the game to avoid going back into the Prison group


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Cether

Senior Member

03-13-2013

First idea is how about if we have a good win ration as a certain lane type we can check that. For example if you scroll over a persons name and they have a win % above 60% for certain role, a message besides their name will appear like "Star Jungler" or something. I don't know exactly how you'll determine what role they were playing but lolking does it pretty well so I'm sure you guys can figure out a pretty good system. This would make it so people who call roles that are actually good at them are more inclined to have their team give them to them, provided their team is trying to win (unfortunately a lot of the people who play ranked aren't really trying to win as much as possible).

I support the idea of if you are considered a positive player you are more likely to be grouped with other positive players. I'm not a fan of the "prisoner island" concept, because of what happens when you constantly surround people with other negative people, but making a haven of positive people to play with creates kind of a reward system, where if you're a good guy you're more likely to play with other good guys, and thus you have incentive to be even more of a good guy.

My last idea kind of is an expansion on the first. It would be awesome to be able to click on an icon next to a summoners name and see what their most played champs are. Like top 5. I'm not asking for win %'s because that can create a negative reaction, however, being able to see what a person plays most can give you an idea of what they're good at.


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MtvYoloSwag420gg

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Senior Recruiter

03-13-2013

What ever you do, do it soon. I am tired of getting trolls that just say hue hue afk and then I either lose 10 points or have to deal with this in ranked games. http://imgur.com/YuidNlZ