So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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Ailias

Senior Member

03-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SexyShady View Post
I'll say one last thing directly to Riot before I remove myself from this incredibly depressing thread....

After reading most of this thread and digging deep into my subconscious to figure out and express what I truly love(d) about Karma, I'm so so so incredibly disappointed in Riot. I used to love that fact that Riot was so very open to it's player base and actually cared. But in this certain situation, especially with such a HUGE rework, there was no discussion beforehand. Like someone from Riot asking on the forums what we liked out of Karma and what we wanted to keep. In addition to that, after reading everyone's thoughts on this thread (supposedly) there was still an attitude of "Welp, too bad." It does truly feel like the minority is being pushed aside for something... else. And it feels like ****. Riot has treated me/us like we don't matter. And I hate that.

If this were a lesser game, I'd stop playing and uninstall as soon as a post this, but I've been playing League for almost 2 years now and it means a lot to me. I've met a lot of good friends on LoL. I've reunited with old friends over LoL, learned how to defend myself as a woman in gaming, and even met my current boyfriend because of LoL. I may be playing less now because of this... and I will definitely rage like a ***** on her period whenever I see this new Karma in game. I think I'll start playing more Dota2.

I'm sure a good portion of the minority can agree that Riot hasn't treated us well with this and we're not happy. Yeah we'll deal cause we're good people (like the old Karma) and treat people fairly (like the old Karma) and are mostly calm in situations (like the old Karma). This post will most definitely be looked over and ignored by other players and Riot employees alike, but I feel like I just had to get some sort of closure if just for myself.

To conclude, I'm really upset, depressed, disappointed, etc. in how this extremely large rework went down. Might as well delete Karma completely and introduce a new champ. I'll be playing less League from now on and looking toward other greater games. Thanks for the experience Riot, and thanks for ****ing it up.
I sympathise with you, I loved the old Karma as well and have already been playing less since mid last year. I just got sick and tired of all the feedback regarding female models being completely and utterly ignored. We were told we would be pleased with the late year release, and then it turned out to be Vi, a brawler who's waist is so small she would snap in half if Teemo sneezed. Oh and yet another ****ty holiday skin...

And then this new Karma, sorry but it's just not even Karma anymore.

I'm really happy with Quinn, but it's too little too late for me. I'd rather focus on things which actively promote gender equality in gaming rather than support this.


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SpadesXin

Junior Member

03-11-2013

I am a karma player. Once I played her one game i immediately made a new id. Bought her and played almost 1500 games of karma . In season 2 I was unstoppable with her unranked. She has the ability to punish any team that was not completely balanced. In season 3 not so much. She doesn't steamroll as much but she can make a difference in the right circumstances. I agree on the kit rework if she can make the perfect 5th to any team. In season 2.i used karma in any role except jungle with the sam runes and masteries. U need a top.? Karma owned. U need a mid. Karma owned. U need support karma owned. My problem is the rest of it. My remove the fans? Why change the dress? All she needs is slightly tweaks to her play style. Not the look. Please save our karma. From someone who only plays her.


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RiotAmes

QA Analyst

03-11-2013
35 of 43 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by T33moHat View Post
...
Tier1: VU only, Soraka, Annie, Nidalee, Ashe, Gangplank for example
Tier2: Visuals, and Lore updates, Twisted Fate for example.
Tier3: Complete overhaul. New lore, New Gameplay/skills/role, New Visuals. So much so they feel a need to make a "Traditional" skin so they don't completely change the item you purchased.
I think as they make these tiers more apparent in the upcoming reworks, expectations will be better managed.
Well put. The official announcement will address this more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmatorture View Post
Still no apologies from Riot for the Megling Genocide.:'(
The what now? I don't know what you're talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItemsGuy View Post
...
You've had some pretty solid posts with good insight. You should link your two blogs (or make it more obvious that they are). As an aside, walls of text can be hard to approach and, speaking from experience, don't often enable good debate. Food for thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XypherFTW View Post
Since Scarizard's kit will go through with the rework, can you tell us about any of the other reworked kits she had that didn't go through?
At least one attempt at her kit was publically discussed. As with her new kit, I won't go into details about why we did or didn't do something. I'd rather leave that to the experts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryOrunitia View Post
I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to disagree then, because I just don't think there is no place in a moba game for complexity, realistic character development and unusual character types. ..
I don't disagree with having any of that, for what it's worth. Stepping away from Karma for a moment. I think unusual character types can be very satisfying. You also need some form of clarity. League has plenty of examples of unusual characters that have clear purpose. (and some that aren't, but that's a different discussion)

Quote:
The lore/personality/visual design stuff is just an extra, a bonus for casual players or people who are more interested in that kind of thing, so what harm could it possibly do for it to be a little more complex and sophisticated?
No harm at all, unless it's as a bandage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iridos View Post
Could you please address the concerns that have been raised about how poorly the Traditional skin lines up with her actual current character and aesthetic?
The Traditional skin is not meant to be a VU of the original Karma. The Traditional skin is a skin for the new Karma inspired by old Karma's aesthetics- it is not a 1 to 1 recreation. There are reasons that we moved away from that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macrofarad View Post
Has her shield been removed or nerfed harshly?
I'm not the right guy to talk kit with you. You'll have to wait for the full reveal. (But I did mention that people who play Karma now still enjoy new Karma)


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Cuix

Senior Member

03-11-2013

I love how Riot continues to outright IGNORE the dress, focusing purely on the fan discussion. But, hey, it's whatever, right? Promising to keep her as classy as she was before doesn't really mean anything; just throw out whatever rework and let the players deal with it.

Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SexyShady View Post
-things-
This quote basically sums up my thoughts, but it's coming from someone using a lot more reason and a ton less vitriol. I'd apologize for being spiteful, but Riot's "nah, bra, you'll like it!" approach to this discussion is pretty insulting, especially when sprinkled with "it's too late anyway".


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Iridos

Senior Member

03-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
The Traditional skin is not meant to be a VU of the original Karma. The Traditional skin is a skin for the new Karma inspired by old Karma's aesthetics- it is not a 1 to 1 recreation. There are reasons that we moved away from that.
See, this is a problem. We actually got red posts saying that the style and visual aesthetics of Karma would not be... well, destroyed or erased. And they have been... so clearly that you guys know you can't even get away with arguing that those elements are still present in some way and have to offer a skin as a sop. And that skin also isn't anything like those "old" aesthetics... it might be inspired by, but it misses all the most important elements of current Karma's visual design. This is exactly what I was talking about when I made the original post about feeling betrayed that Morello questioned.

I'm trying really hard not to be bitter about this, but I'm incredibly frustrated. Right now it looks like Riot has completely gone back on previous promises, knows it, is trying to make up for it... and the attempt to make up for it is also terrible.

EDIT: Rauron's post is right where I'm at.


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HarryOrunitia

Senior Member

03-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
The Traditional skin is not meant to be a VU of the original Karma. The Traditional skin is a skin for the new Karma inspired by old Karma's aesthetics- it is not a 1 to 1 recreation. There are reasons that we moved away from that.
Ok, fine. We understand that (not agree with that but that's a different thing), now can you tell us WHY it wasn't used as her new default? Why make it an extra skin? I honestly think if it were her default skin I would be more willing to accept/cope with everything else you changed about her.

If you go read the first few pages of this thread again, where there were definitely more positive posts than negative ones, you'll see that something like a half of them are still like "I love what you did and I'm glad we get the traditional skin cause I like it better than the new default" or "good job on the rework but why isn't the traditional her default?".

It really doesn't make sense to me. And this time it would be really nice to hear some actual reasons instead of a simple "it was the right decision".

EDIT: Oh, especially considering that the community (and I admit, me included) drools all over pretty much anything designed by IronStylus. And the traditional skin was his design if I understand correctly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
I'm not the right guy to talk kit with you. You'll have to wait for the full reveal. (But I did mention that people who play Karma now still enjoy new Karma)
I'm pretty sure that means "no shield", then?


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Thaddeus Maxwell

Member

03-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post

The what now? I don't know what you're talking


He's referring to the fact that what were once me flings were essentially all retconned into yordles.


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MrTharne

Senior Member

03-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaddeus Maxwell View Post
He's referring to the fact that what were once me flings were essentially all retconned into yordles.
It's not them, it's teemo, he killed all merchants because he wanted his father to get a job and bring him op items for his build like Runaan and Liandry. Riot is too afraid to speak about it, i mean it's Teem...oh god nooooooooooooorgh......................


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Severian NA

Senior Member

03-11-2013

At least it is a comfort to see that I'm not the only one who is having some serious issues dealing with this. And to top it off, there has been so little explanation and information that I don't just don't know what to feel >.< I guess it boils down to "they better have a damn good reason for this" and just ...loss.
But I never knew that what I love about Karma was shared by so many, not to mention that so many cared at all. I am really happy to see that the things that expressed her character to me, and how I came to see that character, was not just my random interpretation. She was anything but a poorly executed character, in the important sense. I hate to see her leave.

In a way I am happy about the leak forcing Riot to reveal the VO before revealing her remade kit. If I had to deal with both at once, I would probably have ended up in an institution >.< I really hope Riot has prepared a major, in depth explanation/diary. Selfish or no, I feel they at least owe us that.


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exe3

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Senior Member

03-11-2013

You've given your reasons for doing a complete change to Karma but why did you only decide to give Urgot a new skin to fix his visual problems rather than relaunching him as well?