So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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Eerds

Senior Member

03-10-2013

gasp*

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK
I can;t wait i'm so excited


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Severian NA

Senior Member

03-10-2013

Good grief, it is like someone jumps into a gang of grumpy old men and commits the atrocity that is looking positively at the future! XD Happy for you


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IllusionArrows

Junior Member

03-10-2013

I think her new splash is too similar to Syndra. I mean with the temple in the back, glowy hands and similar standing/floating positions.


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JestersFolly

Member

03-10-2013

Wait what happens to the skins that Karma has currently =O do they get converted orrrr whut o.o


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Mattarias

Senior Member

03-10-2013

Thanks Ames. I was really afraid that her old lore will be retconned, instead of being continued, in order to explain this new look/mindset/etc.

I can rest easy now. Glad you guys are looking out for us old fans.


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BadgerDrool

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Senior Member

03-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryOrunitia View Post
Well I don't think Lulu and Karma are like the same character or anything. They're driven by very very different things and ideals and they have mostly different personalities and appearances. But Lulu is a cold/distant looking, elegant, mature and intelligent woman who wears an INCREDIBLY impractical dress and fights with one of the most unusual weapons in the history of FF.

There is also a sense of humor about her design, the game itself makes fun of her exaggerated traits, for example the fact that she stores all the items in her cleavage.

I use Lulu as an example primarily because of how it sticks once you reduce it. As I said "lower boob size and belt window". Lulu's definitely an exaggeration and hits many elements I don't feel Karma should. However, she's a known example that is a mage, that wears a dress, that uses a weird weapon, and thus makes a good starting point to work off of.

As I said. I think Lulu would still be sexy with an A cup and a complete dress. It's the way she moves that really sells herself as a sexy elegant lady. How she holds herself. Those are things that remain even when you take out the more overt concept of pin up sexy form her visual design.

Really imagine a Karma that's half way between old Karma and Lulu. I think that highlights some of the things we appear to wish Karma became rather then what we have now.

Quote:
I think her new splash is too similar to Syndra. I mean with the temple in the back, glowy hands and similar standing/floating positions.
As brave as what Riot is doing with Karma seems to be. I don't think it's very brave at all and I think you are hitting why I hold that opinion. So many of the changes they are making with her push her into a safer visual design. Making her closer to Syndra and Irelia. Rather then working their own way up into a unique character.

Quote:
Good grief, it is like someone jumps into a gang of grumpy old men and commits the atrocity that is looking positively at the future! XD Happy for you
I don't fault anyone for being excited. Honestly, they are not wrong. Anyone viewing this and giving feedback from the perspective of "New champion" isn't wrong. It's just a different perspective.

Sadly now that pandora's box is open it'll be an extra legacy issue. Everyone that enjoys the new design will need to be worried about if any changes are made. They'll compare the new design to any redesigns. Making a redesign a very hard thing to do.

Personally, I'm hoping they release Karma's gameplay alongside the Traditional skin as a temporary visual upgrade. Along with all her other base skins getting upgraded. Pull the new base skin back to work on it a bit more and incorporate some feedback. Find a way to get that 50/50 Karma and put some key elements back in. Maybe use Traditional's outfit design as a direct replacement. Then release the VU a bit after. That way they can really do it right, and people don't have to wait as long to have Karma. It'd be a solid middleground solution.

Though honestly. They can likely just release this and ignore the old Karma fans. After all. We are a minority. Our voices can easily be drowned out and not counted.


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Fury of Panda

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Member

03-10-2013

yet you still wont put a base damage on eves ult...... brilliant, simply brilliant


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HarryOrunitia

Senior Member

03-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerDrool View Post
Really imagine a Karma that's half way between old Karma and Lulu. I think that highlights some of the things we appear to wish Karma became rather then what we have now.
Yep, I absolutely I agree. That is the direction I wanted them to take.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerDrool View Post
Though honestly. They can likely just release this and ignore the old Karma fans. After all. We are a minority. Our voices can easily be drowned out and not counted.
And yep, as much as I love all the other suggestions in your post and I wish for them to happen, I know this is definitely what's going to happen instead.


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Severian NA

Senior Member

03-10-2013

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that we are making a great deal of assumptions based on very little (roit pls) feedback. I by no means discourage pleas for Riot to reconsider this design decision, if possible, but I think that is very unlikely. For my own part, I have accepted that there is a very small chance for even a skin that is as like her current self as possible, if only one day in the future. Yet, that is something I am not willing to give up unless Morello personally comes over and bludgeons me to silence with the nerf bat.
If Riot actually pulls this rework back, and agrees to redo this based on our feedback, that is a grand gesture for their part. Unfortunately, that must mean that they didn't really try to do so during all the time the rework has been worked on. Sure, it seems pretty thin if you just look at the announcement and the explanations there, and if you consider how the fans here never heard anyone asking them what they thought. However, if Riot did proper research, if there is a lot of work, trial and error, and failed attempts behind the short and confident statements about how this is the best solution they could find, then nothing will change their mind.
And even though I want to keep my Karma, I don't want to think Riot didn't really try, or care, but just went "this looks badass"! The way this was announced knocked me completely out of balance, because it somehow made it seem like that is what had happened. That was a very bad way of breaking it to those who cared about her, and I hope it was because we were going haywire over that leaked picture, and Riot had to do something before we injured ourselves.

If they didn't try hard enough to maintain her current look, (and I very much want to hear all about how hard they tried) and decide to try again based on this feedback, yay! I can hope again. But personally, I give up. I can't see how that is remotely probable. They seemed to have taken meticolous (sp?) care when designing the synergy of her model, animations, powers and the way she channels them. This will probably become apparent when they reveal her kit. With such a focus on synergy, they must have fully commited to this, and you can't touch one aspect without adjusting another. That is how it seems to me. If they made this commitment without conviction that a total redesign was required, that doesn't make sense. They failed several times. They must have come to the point where they said "Screw it, this isnt going to work out, we must admit defeat."
That is what I want to think, and it doesn't seem too far fetched.

If they had done this at the beginning, it couldn't possibly have taken so long. They have repeatedly stated that reworking a champion is more time consuming than creating a new one. No? So while I would love to hear all about what they tried, why they failed, and how they proceeded, because I am sad and I want large amounts of comfort in the form of "we really tried, and you can read all about it here". (Plus, I am curious after all this discussion. ) Uh, yes, while I want to hear about it, I am pretty convinced that they really are confident, and it might even be with good reason!
And as I said, they have something planned, I just hope it is more down to earth than yon announcement >.< One mention of the word "badass" and I will personally travel from Norway to Riot HQ, set up a gigantic stereo, and play 'true norwegian black metal' until they beg for forgiveness!!!111

And, I went off again. I need to stop doing this. Sorry!


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IS13d0bef7a26900094c0e3

Junior Member

03-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Severian NA View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that we are making a great deal of assumptions based on very little (roit pls) feedback. I by no means discourage pleas for Riot to reconsider this design decision, if possible, but I think that is very unlikely. For my own part, I have accepted that there is a very small chance for even a skin that is as like her current self as possible, if only one day in the future. Yet, that is something I am not willing to give up unless Morello personally comes over and bludgeons me to silence with the nerf bat.
If Riot actually pulls this rework back, and agrees to redo this based on our feedback, that is a grand gesture for their part. Unfortunately, that must mean that they didn't really try to do so during all the time the rework has been worked on. Sure, it seems pretty thin if you just look at the announcement and the explanations there, and if you consider how the fans here never heard anyone asking them what they thought. However, if Riot did proper research, if there is a lot of work, trial and error, and failed attempts behind the short and confident statements about how this is the best solution they could find, then nothing will change their mind.
And even though I want to keep my Karma, I don't want to think Riot didn't really try, or care, but just went "this looks badass"! The way this was announced knocked me completely out of balance, because it somehow made it seem like that is what had happened. That was a very bad way of breaking it to those who cared about her, and I hope it was because we were going haywire over that leaked picture, and Riot had to do something before we injured ourselves.

If they didn't try hard enough to maintain her current look, (and I very much want to hear all about how hard they tried) and decide to try again based on this feedback, yay! I can hope again. But personally, I give up. I can't see how that is remotely probable. They seemed to have taken meticolous (sp?) care when designing the synergy of her model, animations, powers and the way she channels them. This will probably become apparent when they reveal her kit. With such a focus on synergy, they must have fully commited to this, and you can't touch one aspect without adjusting another. That is how it seems to me. If they made this commitment without conviction that a total redesign was required, that doesn't make sense. They failed several times. They must have come to the point where they said "Screw it, this isnt going to work out, we must admit defeat."
That is what I want to think, and it doesn't seem too far fetched.

If they had done this at the beginning, it couldn't possibly have taken so long. They have repeatedly stated that reworking a champion is more time consuming than creating a new one. No? So while I would love to hear all about what they tried, why they failed, and how they proceeded, because I am sad and I want large amounts of comfort in the form of "we really tried, and you can read all about it here". (Plus, I am curious after all this discussion. ) Uh, yes, while I want to hear about it, I am pretty convinced that they really are confident, and it might even be with good reason!
And as I said, they have something planned, I just hope it is more down to earth than yon announcement >.< One mention of the word "badass" and I will personally travel from Norway to Riot HQ, set up a gigantic stereo, and play 'true norwegian black metal' until they beg for forgiveness!!!111

And, I went off again. I need to stop doing this. Sorry!
do mind dearest that some decisions that Riot Inc. makes isn't just to please a niche but to make things more enjoyable overall. you think you're entitled to something just because you're like it and that my friend is going to cause you trouble down the road. chances are that this remake will be more widely appealing which it sounds like from this thread since it's only a few people whining and if it is more widely appealing then that is a win on Riot Inc.'s part. they get more happy customers than sad customers and in the end it's better for more people just not necessarily you. also you never stop to consider that what you think of Karma may not be what Riot wanted Karma to be, and what they want Karma to be can change whenever they wanted to. in the end if you don't like a decision, you just don't give them money. if they make lots of money from their decision then they win. if they win then you just have to find something else to like. if the only thing you liked was Karma's fans then I'm sorry but you have a very minute taste and are not going to enjoy a lot of things.

once you realize that you are not entitled to anything ever, life's hardships become a lot more bearable. so pipe down and either try to understand the reasoning behind Riot Inc.'s decisions without taking everything as a personal attack against "Karma's truest and oldest fans" which are just self-glorified hipsters IMO, or just find a new champion to like.