Morello, let's talk AP Ezreal

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Lycian7014

Senior Member

03-08-2013

Thread bumps AD Annie


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Morello

Lead Designer

03-08-2013
1 of 16 Riot Posts

Let me talk high-level and then to your specific suggestions;

1) I tend to prefer off-builds that allow similar gameplay with different high- and low-points, or a different pattern altogether. An example of this is, while there's a power problem here, AP and AD Nidalee.

2) Support of off-builds should not sacrifice strong gameplay patterns of primary paths - for example, AP Tryndamere, before nerfs, subverted his entire gameplay pattern to abuse a mechanic. This is not worth supporting an off-build as the costs are higher than the benefits.

3) We have to primarily think of one thing to balance when tuning. It's more important that there's situations you build different items (such as Bloodthirster vs Infinity Edge vs Last Whisper) than you can build different scaling points.

Now, onto your post.

I think the Q and R changes are potentially pretty safe. I do think Ezreal is pretty balanced as an ADC right now. My only worry is the potential to remove satisfaction from AD Ezreal by lowering the damage of his two primary damage spells, but these numbers might be OK.

I don't think the Essence Flux change is a good change, but I think you're looking at a general Ezreal problem with a correct diagnosis; without the AS Slow, the skill is lacking in interesting or defining qualities. This, additionally, can hurt AP Ezreal, but overall is something I think is lame for Ezreal in general.

I'd like to see something that defines it, but my critiques here are: it does give an ADC access to a team-wide AS buff (both potentially OP, and potentially terrible based on who's on your team) and it doesn't actually do anything that I think helps AP Ezreal more than it helps Ezreal overall. That might be OK, if that's your goal here, but it's agnostic to AP/AD.

Overall, I don't have an issue with AP Ezreal, I just think you guys are putting more value on this than it actually provides. You still do the same things, except you do one less thing - auto-attack - and with the low CD of Mystic shot, is it even possible to make that spell feel good on both builds without being absurd on one? I'm not convinced that it is. I think this is more something that's more based in the idea that it makes you feel special (and that's valid in a vacuum) but it doesn't actually do anything real, gameplay-wise. AP Kog'Maw, for example, I think does offer a new pattern because you overly-focus on different skills, but there's still gameplay. Even in that situation it's hard to balance. I guess I understand there's a desire to have AP Ezreal from a core group of die-hard AP Ez fans, I just don't understand why he's the champion people focus on when there's no new gameplay to find within AP Ezreal.

I do feel, though, Essence Flux needs some mechanical help to define and differentiate it from Q and other damage spells generally. I'd like to see some work go into that.


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Eagle X D

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Senior Member

03-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I think this is a similar argument to saying "AD Annie is weak" - it's intentional to an extent. Off-builds are cool to experiment with them, but in almost all cases, off-builds get outclassed by other options or the "real build."

Opportunistically, we don't mind off-builds and like to allow them, we're just not going to balance them for competitive play :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I don't like a character who is "my job is to only burst" - we have a few that are hard to pull out of that like Talon, but mages have more levers.

The difference between a mage and other damage-dealers is control/utility. I'd rather take burst casters (Annie/Veigar/LeBlanc) and add this element, not make them able to meet the expectations of 100-0 burst - which means it has to be valid at multiple game points and viable in a multitude of strategies.

Off-builds are off-builds. I like to leave them alone and let then do what they can do when players discover them (unless it's causing an actual problem, like any build) but I don't feel its necessary to support them. Why is AP Ezreal more valid a thing to want than AD Annie?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
AP Ratios are largely in case you get a little AP from Baron buff or something like Sheen, so it doesn't feel useless. It's not to validate the build path.
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Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I don't tell the team "disregard AP Ezreal," but don't compromise Ezreal's balance overall to achieve AP Ezreal viability.
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Originally Posted by Morello View Post
That's largely true, which shows the difference between design intent and reality. Intent can't be the balance driver in these cases.
.


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Ask Tyrant Swain

Member

03-08-2013

Hey, Morello, since you are here. Would letting Ezreal's W hit minions be okay if it didn't grant him passive stacks? Of course, it would still give stacks when hitting champions.
What do you see as a potential drawback of such a change?


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Brightinly

Senior Member

03-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post

1) I tend to prefer off-builds that allow similar gameplay with different high- and low-points, or a different pattern altogether.
As a non native speaker, I'm having a hard time understanding this.


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Morello

Lead Designer

03-08-2013
2 of 16 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask Tyrant Swain View Post
Hey, Morello, since you are here. Would letting Ezreal's W hit minions be okay if it didn't grant him passive stacks? Of course, it would still give stacks when hitting champions.
What do you see as a potential drawback of such a change?
Mostly that I think that's just a wave-clear component overall. I guess if it had terrible bases and high ratios it would be AP Ez only, but I think I don't want to give Ezreal more farming ability since his Q and R is so helpful for getting CS. At that point, he lanes like Morgana, which I don't think any of us can speak to being an interesting and dynamic lane opponent.


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Eagle X D

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Senior Member

03-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I guess I understand there's a desire to have AP Ezreal from a core group of die-hard AP Ez fans, I just don't understand why he's the champion people focus on when there's no new gameplay to find within AP Ezreal.
Pulsefire ezreal.... EVAPORATION NOWWWWWWWW ... you did it to yourself Morello.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

03-08-2013

Make Ezreal's Essence Flux lower MR. This is probably a terrible idea.


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Commando Slap

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Senior Member

03-08-2013

Im sick of ezreal.

never return


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TheFinalAeon

Senior Member

03-08-2013

I just want Trueshot Barrage to have actual AP Scaling again. Considering all of Ezreal's stuff is magic-based, he should have decent AP Scaling on AT LEAST his ult. At least make the scaling on par with the AD Scaling (which I think was a mistake to add to begin with, as it was basically AP Ez's main reason for living).

Your move, Morello.