So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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Healurownbum

Senior Member

03-08-2013

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Originally Posted by Veelivar View Post
Her entire personality?

This. She too me became a kickboxer more so now. I know u dont agree. I dont care tbh.
Its how i feel abt it. Which u dont care abt. So we are at a impasse.

They are moving away from who she to me is. And making her more so a pure fighter in my eyes.


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Iridos

Senior Member

03-08-2013

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Originally Posted by VexTheHex View Post
How so?

If we are going with Traditional Karma for the example. She has the same skin tone, the same eye markings, the same hair, the same utility mage vibe (hopefully made stronger in both), and she is still keeping her title as being a powerful Ionian leader who has deep connections to her innerself.

What exactly is gone?

Her dress has been modified. This is quite a good thing. It's was impratical to the point of being kind of dumb. She is running through the jungle, and she will get snagged on every branch and trip over and roots she comes across. You know the best way to stop her from fleeing from you? Step on her dress. The Traditional Karma even keeps the same color scheme and keeps her covered up. (a leg and her shoulders are bare in the new classic) People change outfits all the time, I don't think her clothes being changed to a degree destroyed her. I think she still looks classy, just not to a overdone level.

Her fans are the other thing. What exactly did she do with her fans? Her emotes. I think by taking them away from her, they have opened up the oppurtunity to add a future champion that uses giant battle fans. While her fans being removed did shock me, I can accept that they wanted to push Karma's inner power theme and not the fan fighter that she never really went into anyway.
I'll repost what I posted earlier, but the TLR is that I disagree... everything about the Traditional skin is moving away from the characteristic themes that make her current model so good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iridos View Post
Yeah, it has a black and white theme... but the original skin is actually a mirrored split between the two, showing them balanced against each other. The new Traditional skin does not do this. We've got all this mystical energy bogus that really doesn't fit her origin story at all, meaning a lot of extra glowing effects that are directly contradictory to her current look. She is no longer wearing a long dress, which I always felt lent itself to showing that she was stylish and composed, more of a leader and a diplomat than a brawler... this is actually probably one of the biggest issues, as I feel that in a long dress a lot of the other problems would clearly look so bad that they would be removed. Obviously the issue with the fans is a problem. The facial structure on the Traditional skin is narrower, giving her a more pointed look that again contradicts the current model's appearance of relaxed balance... there may also be an issue with the eyes, but I'm not good enough at art to take this past "She looks focused and mean instead of balanced and calm." Her jewelry is studded into random places on the white belts instead of being set up as a mirror image, again moving away from the concept of balance... and that's without pointing out that she's suddenly wearing a bunch of gems instead of just a belt, back/chest piece, and fans, which once again is moving away from the minimalist design of the current model that I feel is a powerful statement of self-acceptance. Speaking of which, wtf white belts? She's not Ezreal. Even the hair is wrong... in her current model, her hair shows the only place that she isn't balanced and mirrored with the red streak on the side, emphasizing that while her costume shows her desire for balance, she may not have personally reached perfect balance yet, while in the Traditional skin her hair has mirrored red streaks.



Attempting to summarize here. I'm upset because I feel that the Traditional skin does not actually retain any of the themes that give Karma's current model so much power. Her current model lines up brilliantly with her lore to show off someone who is composed, enlightened, and mature... someone who participates in battle only out of necessity, and whose true strength comes from her ability to recognize when fighting is not necessary. The current model displays this starting from the obvious with a long dress with a theme of black and white balanced and mirrored against each other, with a minimal amount of jewelry and general bling to distract from this image... all of which is fitted into the mirrored and balanced theme. This points to someone who, while capable of fighting, would prefer to find another way if possible, and who is truly focused on inner peace and enlightenment, allowing her to remain calm and composed in any situation. The new model just does not achieve this at all.

The funny thing is that I barely play Karma... I hate her game mechanics passionately. But I've always loved her model and thought that it was one of the best pieces of female artwork in the game, or in most games I've played, showcasing a brilliant matchup between the character's backstory/lore and appearance. I was concerned after the Annie visual rework because I dislike literally every single thing about it, especially the way that it moved her away from the "cute child" concept that was so central to her character, but I felt reassured that it wouldn't happen with Karma because there were actually red posts indicating that the art rework would attempt to retain the most powerful qualities of the old model. Now I find out that not only has that concern been reduced to "We know that we are completely throwing the things that were great about her old model out the window, so here's a skin to make up for it," but the skin in question doesn't even do a good job of reproducing the power of the current model. Does my disappointment and frustration make more sense now?
And I do need to add at this point that the people arguing that a long dress is "impractical on the battlefield" are deliberately ignoring the fact that LoL champions have never worn the most practical outfits. Most of the armor in the game is totally unrealistic... even the champions that are deliberately intended to have more practical armor are wearing outfits that would never be practical on a realistic arena, quite aside from the ridiculous outfits that a lot of non-armored champions wear. To argue that a long dress should be removed because it's not practical is nothing more than deliberate ignorance.


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Veelivar

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03-08-2013

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Originally Posted by MrTharne View Post
Like VexTheHex said, we don't know the new lore, how can you talk about personality without it ?

Because the Reds have spoken about how she's now a ferocious fighter? And how she's mentally changed to this battling warrior kinda leader lady?

Because even if they keep her lore the same, which they aren't, the model would not fit someone with the same personality, which is most of the issue people have with this new Karma.


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Yago Xiten

Senior Member

03-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VexTheHex View Post
How so?

If we are going with Traditional Karma for the example. She has the same skin tone, the same eye markings, the same hair, the same utility mage vibe (hopefully made stronger in both), and she is still keeping her title as being a powerful Ionian leader who has deep connections to her innerself.

What exactly is gone?

Her dress has been modified. This is quite a good thing. It's was impratical to the point of being kind of dumb. She is running through the jungle, and she will get snagged on every branch and trip over and roots she comes across. You know the best way to stop her from fleeing from you? Step on her dress. The Traditional Karma even keeps the same color scheme and keeps her covered up. (a leg and her shoulders are bare in the new classic) People change outfits all the time, I don't think her clothes being changed to a degree destroyed her. I think she still looks classy, just not to a overdone level.

Her fans are the other thing. What exactly did she do with her fans? Her emotes. I think by taking them away from her, they have opened up the oppurtunity to add a future champion that uses giant battle fans. While her fans being removed did shock me, I can accept that they wanted to push Karma's inner power theme and not the fan fighter that she never really went into anyway.

We do not know how she sounds, her new lore, her new animations, or her new Kit. We know she is keeping her Mantra and looks like she kept her Spirit Bond spell. Though it also appears one of her other two were cut, which between the two I'd bet it was Heavenly Wave as Riot has never been big on healers and all other Utility mages do not have AoE heals.
Karma's elegant dress was probably a thousand times more practical for jungle walking than Sejuani's garb (or should I say lack-there-of?) for blizzard venturing, but no one complains about that because Sej is flaunting her breasts and ass.

Also, sure, they opened up the opportunity to have a champion with fans. By essentially removing one who already had them.

Say what you will, from what we know now, this feels like gutting and removing what made Karma, Karma, for a new champion who shares her name.

Of course, I hope I'm seriously wrong, but I fear I won't be. Until we know more, we can only speculate. As of now, it's at least apparent she's become sexualized and lost her theme. We don't know about her kit, yet, but it's probably similarly been defiled.


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VexTheHex

Senior Member

03-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Blade Yago View Post
Karma's elegant dress was probably a thousand times more practical for jungle walking than Sejuani's garb (or should I say lack-there-of?) for blizzard venturing, but no one complains about that because Sej is flaunting her breasts and ass.

Also, sure, they opened up the opportunity to have a champion with fans. By essentially removing one who already had them.

Say what you will, from what we know now, this feels like gutting and removing what made Karma, Karma, for a new champion who shares her name.

Of course, I hope I'm seriously wrong, but I fear I won't be. Until we know more, we can only speculate. As of now, it's at least apparent she's become sexualized and lost her theme. We don't know about her kit, yet, but it's probably similarly been defiled.
To be fair, the Freljord champions are not fighting in their hometown. They are fighting in the Fields of Justice. This weather is hot to them, it actually makes sense for Tryndamere (nobody seems to remember Mr. Shirtless when discussing Sejuani) and Sejuani.


And @another poster... omg, you think the Annie rework was bad? Did you think the same for Twisted Fate to? Both of them were made 100x better. :I


As for her personality being changed, please point me to her new lines, lore, and animations. We can't tell that for sure until those are out. Her personality is not something people can really discuss to success currently. Riot stated they wanted some sort of toll to have taken it's effects on her, so we will have to wait and see.


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MrTharne

Senior Member

03-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veelivar View Post
Because the Reds have spoken about how she's now a ferocious fighter? And how she's mentally changed to this battling warrior kinda leader lady?

Because even if they keep her lore the same, which they aren't, the model would not fit someone with the same personality, which is most of the issue people have with this new Karma.
No, they said that Ionia was "filled with internal strife and awakened ferocity", not Karma. But as a leader of Ionia, she can't stay like she is forever while her people is getting killed by Zaun/Noxus/Syndra, sometimes diplomacy doesn't work and you have to change your course of action.


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nebster0121

Junior Member

03-08-2013

The in-game looks amazing! I liked the old skin, but think the new one is 10x better. My only (perhaps small) complaint is that her picture shows off a lot more skin than the old one. That was something I really liked about her too. Don't get me wrong, I like a scantily clad miss proportioned female character as much as the last guy, but I appreciated Karma being modest and...realistically proportioned. In my mind I can take her more seriously that way, and after all, Karma is supposed to be... serious.


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Veelivar

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Recruiter

03-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VexTheHex View Post
As for her personality being changed, please point me to her new lines, lore, and animations. We can't tell that for sure until those are out. Her personality is not something people can really discuss to success currently. Riot stated they wanted some sort of toll to have taken it's effects on her, so we will have to wait and see.

I don't think you understand.
Her personality was more than just her lines or her lore. It was also her stance, her walk, and the way she looked ingame. Riot do go out of their way to try and make a champ's model fit and convey their personality.


From this, we can get a pretty good idea of that they intend for her.

Nevermind the fact that, again, even if she magically keeps the same lines and lore, then her model is still monstrously out of place for her - which is, again, still the major issue a lot of people have.


At this point, with this model, without even counting the info we've been given by Reds, there is no way that Karma's personality will read the same.



On the note of where Summoner's Rift is located, according to the lore, it is actually located between Freljord, the Serpentine River, and the Ironspine Mountains. This places it right up there near the cold.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wsDv1n-hBt...oran_Final.jpg


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Yago Xiten

Senior Member

03-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VexTheHex View Post
To be fair, the Freljord champions are not fighting in their hometown. They are fighting in the Fields of Justice. This weather is hot to them, it actually makes sense for Tryndamere (nobody seems to remember Mr. Shirtless when discussing Sejuani) and Sejuani.


And @another poster... omg, you think the Annie rework was bad? Did you think the same for Twisted Fate to? Both of them were made 100x better. :I


As for her personality being changed, please point me to her new lines, lore, and animations. We can't tell that for sure until those are out. Her personality is not something people can really discuss to success currently. Riot stated they wanted some sort of toll to have taken it's effects on her, so we will have to wait and see.
If someone changes their outfit from a very reserved elegant dress and puts on a sexy outfit, and also goes from being about perfect harmony and peace to harnessing a ferocity and being a (and I quote) "badass conduit of inner strength that brings Ionia’s strength to every battlefield". I would say they have changed dramatically.

Nice job trying (and not to be rude but pretty miserably failing) to rationalize Sejuani's ridiculous bikini. It doesn't make much more sense for Tryndamere to go around shirtless in Freljord, but at least his ultimate somehow relates to how he might be able to survive it. He's also the "Barbarian King", and those are typically depicted shirtless and savage. Yes, I know Sejuani is "The Winter's Wrath" but I don't think of a bikini as supporting that title very much.

Anyways, that Freljord stuff is honestly a whole other can of worms.


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Terra Enigma

Senior Member

03-08-2013

This thread, the views, the comments. And it's about karma