So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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Farthucha

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Junior Member

03-07-2013

Now will Karma still say victory is assured with her new model?


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HarryOrunitia

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FloydPinkus View Post
Mordekaiser and Soraka are good examples here, but Sion is a horrible one to use. Sion's kit and lore have been as far removed as they could from each other for a long time. His lore mentions that he charges into battle swinging his massive axe (which they even gave a name, Choppa), but instead most sions just build ap, stun+shield, and run away again. Hardly representative of what he should be. Big changes necesito.

I've been arguing that he needs exactly what Karma is getting now even more than she does. But Riot has probably opted to make this decision because she's the least played champ in the game, I suppose.
I'm aware of the big design issue with Sion and it's exactly why I brought him up. I admit I've never even played Sion, but if I were a Sion player I would probably be disappointed if they took "Choppa" away entirely in his rework, or if they completely changed the nature of his kit to make use of the axe in every skill. I believe with some creative and smart design you could definitely still have a "bit of both" to maintain the maybe flawed uniqueness of the character, while still making it look more consistent and appealing.

With Karma, they didn't even try. So I brought Sion up because I'd definitely be curious to hear if Riot plans to give him a similar treatment.


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Hawnda

Junior Member

03-07-2013

Thanks for telling us about the free skin, really shows how faithful Karma players are rewarded.


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TYoung11

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Does Anivia have an awesome high-res "fine tuning" coming to anytime soon? Love her kit and would hate to see that change, but a visual update would be quite fetching, nothing completely new, just a little more flavor ^_^


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Qonker

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moira View Post
I am an incredible fan of Karma, but I can't, for the life of me, understand all the dismay over the loss of her fans. I've heard it described as Yi losing his sword, Caitlyn losing her rifle, etc., but it's really not the same at all.

Karma used her fans for one (1) spell.
I think it is because the fans, while only playing a minor role in her kit, were symbolic of her "enlightened" background. She used an nontraditional weapon, similar to Jax's lamp post, on a battlefield with other champions using swords, guns, etc. which enhanced and spoke to that inner strength you mention. Her resolve is what gave her power, not the fans, but they served as a reminder that she was of a different stature then other champions on the field. She did not rely on conventional weaponry, but her will alone to defeat her enemies.

I think removing the fans were a mistake. If anything they should have played up the fans. It would have allowed them to show that unlike Jax, who uses his physical prowess and skills as fighter overcome a self inclined handicap. Karma's determination and willpower are all she needs. The fans serve as a vehicle to convey that message:

"I am stronger than you, I will beat you, not because I was born a fighter. It is because I was pushed to this. The path I take is through you, for my people, those that have died and those that suffer on. I will cast you aside the way a fan pushes the air on a warm summer's night. You may not fear my fans, but you will fear me."

That's my take at least.


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Myozu

Junior Member

03-07-2013

finally :>


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Ninth Belief

Senior Member

03-07-2013

I love that they removed the fans, actually. Please keep them out -- they were silly and had nothing to do with most of her skillset.


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Moira

Junior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryOrunitia View Post
The "she doesn't really use her fans in her kit" argument would be valid if we didn't have champions like Mordekaiser, Soraka and Sion in the game.

Also they could have just changed her kit, particles and animations (since her kit was actually the main problem, not her looks) so that the fans fit better into it, not do it the other way around like "oh I'll just make her kit and if the fans don't fit anymore I'll just take them away". That's just bad design. Having a champion without recognizable features/weapons/accessories, it's just bad design.

And don't tell me the jade dragons are original and recognizable because Irelia and the Lunar Revel Cassiopeia skin both have very similar accessories. Didn't Diana's skin get changed just because Syndra had a similar headpiece?

Also, I honestly don't care at all for characters who are just supposed to represent an idea, a nation, or an element in the lore. I like the champions to be PEOPLE with their memories, their characters, their humor, their different personalities. Karma's fans really meant something to her, they were what she chose to be the vessels of her power because they were a memento from her past. And they fit with her image of classy, collected politician.

Now she's just generic, an incredibly generic personification of Ionia with seemingly no personality of her own. Some people are excited because to them it looks better than the previous Karma, because they KNOW Karma, but if this were an entirely new champion announced today, would you still be excited? Would you even be able to tell exactly what role she's supposed to play? In the lore, or the game.

Look at how in the splash art they had to add those swirly green energy things around her hands. Why? Because they're EMPTY, and it looks weird if you don't cover it up somehow. It's just incredibly weird for a mage to be designed like that, it definitely looks more like a fighter kind of character, and I bet that's exactly the reason why a character like Soraka still has her scythe despite not using it AT ALL in her kit.

You make a fair amount of points. I will admit that Karma's fans have become her icon to the majority of her players. However, my point wasn't "she doesn't use them"; my point was "she is more than the fans." Also, I don't think her fans were designed to be her most recognizable point. I think they simply BECAME her most recognizable point, as did Mordekaiser's mace (which he actually uses in two of his spells, just not in the way expected), and Soraka's staff (which, again, his used in multiple spells, but not in the way expected).

You say that she has lost her personality. Of course she seems to have no real personality right now. We've only seen her splash art and some of her model. We haven't seen her reworked lore, seen her in game effects, or heard her new voiceover. Those are, to me, what really made Karma's personality, not just her splash or her fans.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is this: Can we really say whether this "new" Karma is so far detached from the "old" without first hearing what she has to say and seeing what exactly it is she can do?


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Bes7iA

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Senior Member

03-07-2013

ok i havent thought on this but riot, please i fyou gonna give her a new dance
please...
please...

pleeeease ... DONT make it the harlem shake

if thats the case then it would be a total homicide for karma


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RecklessHansi

Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryOrunitia View Post
The "she doesn't really use her fans in her kit" argument would be valid if we didn't have champions like Mordekaiser, Soraka and Sion in the game.

Also they could have just changed her kit, particles and animations (since her kit was actually the main problem, not her looks) so that the fans fit better into it, not do it the other way around like "oh I'll just make her kit and if the fans don't fit anymore I'll just take them away". That's just bad design. Having a champion without recognizable features/weapons/accessories, it's just bad design.

Also, I honestly don't care at all for characters who are just supposed to represent an idea, a nation, or an element in the lore. I like the champions to be PEOPLE with their memories, their characters, their humor, their different personalities. Karma's fans really meant something to her, they were what she chose to be the vessels of her power because they were a memento from her past. And they fit with her image of classy, collected politician.

Now she's just generic, an incredibly generic personification of Ionia with seemingly no personality of her own. Some people are excited because to them it looks better than the previous Karma, because they KNOW Karma, but if this were an entirely new champion announced today, would you still be excited? Would you even be able to tell exactly what role she's supposed to play? In the lore, or the game.

Look at how in the splash art they had to add those swirly green energy things around her hands. Why? Because they're EMPTY, and it looks weird if you don't cover it up somehow. It's just incredibly weird for a mage to be designed like that, it definitely looks more like a fighter kind of character, and I bet that's exactly the reason why a character like Soraka still has her scythe despite not using it AT ALL in her kit.
It's part of a paradigm shift, like Morello said. To me, it looks like something like this:


The Character evolved from heavenly matron to a wrecked-but rising nation's wise spiritual leader.
She changed her trustworthy fans for the coat of arms from her homeland.
She needed power for the changes that will come under her leadership, so she put away the tiny shy-looking fans for now, to harness her power directly from the source: herself. And come on, we all know that power directly from the source is stronger. Something is lost along the conduits.

Her clothes change also refers to that.
The change of attire, for me, represents the equivalent of someone rolling up the sleeves.
Let's put down this complicated, movement impairing dress for a while, because I may need to chase faster the horde of people I'm about to kick ass.

This **** isnt about her only anymore.
This is about leading her country to prosperity and maybe vengeance.
She can't be shy, reserved anymore. As a leader she gotta be trustworthy, clear and at least show some kind of power, so her people can rest assured, knowing she will protect them.


Quote:
Look at how in the splash art they had to add those swirly green energy things around her hands. Why? Because they're EMPTY, and it looks weird if you don't cover it up somehow. It's just incredibly weird for a mage to be designed like that, it definitely looks more like a fighter kind of character, and I bet that's exactly the reason why a character like Soraka still has her scythe despite not using it AT ALL in her kit.
Brand, Elise, Evelyn, Malzahar, Morgana, Nunu, Syndra, Twisted Fate, Xerath, Zileand and Zyra.

None of these mage-like champions are holding anything to direct the flow of their magic.
Their power comes directly from themselves. No artifacts needed. So, no, not having a gadget of sorts to generate or conduct power isnt uncommon, especially on league of legends.