BORK? Why not bring back Thornmail?

First Riot Post
1234511 ... 28
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Epic Wasabi

Senior Member

03-05-2013

How about instead of nerfing the one item that's actually useful for top AD's like fiora and irelia (who have only been gathering dust since season 3 started), Riot instead buff/remake thornmail]. Perhaps give it an active ability to taunt, or something of that nature.

I mean seriously, I've almost never seen a person get thornmail since the start of season 3. (it is still around right?)

So thus it'd counter BORK, and yet still force the enemy tank whether he should just keep stacking HP or grab a thornmail to counter.

TLDR: Buff/Remake Thornmail instead of nerfing a Blade of The Ruined King to the ground.
Thoughts anyone?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MaruFrozen

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Are you serious right now?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FreeGothitelle

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Thornmail doesn't even counter BotRK

If you've watched voyboy's stream, he went 0/3 against the enemy singed as ezreal, built botrk, singed built thornmail and he still went pretty even in lane. (lifesteal counteracts the on hit damage you receive, active lets you kite)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JoeDerp

Member

03-05-2013

The damaged returned will lessen the life stolen considerably, so it's not a total waste.
I just think that the way the damage return is calculated should be reverted.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Wertilq

Senior Member

03-05-2013

It doesn't help overly much. It lowers the lifesteal, and the active from Ruined King still is strong and passive of thornmail doesn't work against that one.
.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Epic Wasabi

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeGothitelle View Post
Thornmail doesn't even counter BotRK

If you've watched voyboy's stream, he went 0/3 against the enemy singed as ezreal, built botrk, singed built thornmail and he still went pretty even in lane. (lifesteal counteracts the on hit damage you receive, active lets you kite)
My point exactly, but what if they buffed Thornmail or remade it into a more viable item for countering items like BORK?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Aevumus

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-05-2013

It's League of Cleavers all over again.
The meta has shifted to double AD carry because this item is just too damn good.
Thornmail doesn't counter it. Randuin's does. And not very well, at that.
It's cheap, it's high sustain, high damage, utility slow/life sap.
I've seen several games where it's built on 8/10 champions, the only exceptions being supports.
In what way is this item NOT overpowered?

I mean, I understand you want your antiquated champions to be more powerful, but all of the AD Casters said the exact same thing when Cleaver was broken.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xypherous

Systems Designer

03-05-2013
1 of 28 Riot Posts

Intrinsic problem with introducing a string of counter-items to counter-items is that they begin to rapidly take up all the other space of the counter-items to begin with. I knew this going into BoRK but my primary goal was to ensure that the chain of counter-itemization was a complete cycle - as it seemed fairly obvious that the cycle of counters stopped at high health.

There's a secondary problem if the cycle starts dwarfing everything because you absolutely *need* the counter-item because the uncountered case is far too powerful.

However, nerfing BoRK wasn't a directly an issue of not having a counter-item, Randuin's Omen and Frozen Heart are *fine* in this respect as to countering the item. The issue comes in whether or not the item is overpowered when uncountered - because this has the direct effect of diminishing the item pool substantially.

This is undoubtedly true in this case in lane - thus the nerf.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MaruFrozen

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aevumus View Post
It's League of Cleavers all over again.
The meta has shifted to double AD carry because this item is just too damn good.
Thornmail doesn't counter it. Randuin's does. And not very well, at that.
It's cheap, it's high sustain, high damage, utility slow/life sap.
I've seen several games where it's built on 8/10 champions, the only exceptions being supports.
In what way is this item NOT overpowered?

I mean, I understand you want your antiquated champions to be more powerful, but all of the AD Casters said the exact same thing when Cleaver was broken.
This. The problem isn't thornmail, it's BORK. Riot saw an 'underused item' like they saw with gunblade and they buffed it, overly so, and now it's broken.

10 bucks it gets nerfed numerous times in subsequent patches.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

VanceStubbs

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Yeah, making it expensive means "nerfing it to the ground"


1234511 ... 28