Finally an item gets noticed to counter HP stacking.

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lol I died again

Member

03-04-2013

Why do you not teamfight the strongest teamfighter in the game (Amumu)? Because you'll lose.
-> Why do you not fight health-stackers? Because you'll lose.
--> Why do you not fight health-stacking bruisers? Because you'll lose badly.
---> Win by not fighting.
----> How? Pushers.
-----> LoL is now about pushing.

Conclusion: Health has lowered the fun level of pvp fighting. This makes it overpowered.


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LordTobiothan

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeIKill View Post
BoTRK is meant to counter HP stacking. Building armor helps against it. It's completely counterable.
If people built tanks the way a tank should be built, MR/Armor/HP instead of pure HP then BC/I.E./AS like we see now. Then people wouldn't be complaining. But no, stack HP or die nowadays.
why is your tank building armor/hp/mr? shouldn't it be armor/MR? As noted botrk makes any and all purchases of HP entirely irrelevant so why are you including it anywhere in your build?

Besides tanks don't stack health because no one plays them, I haven't seen a tank in this game in awhile, why play a tank when a bruiser can build straight tank has better defensive steriods then actual tank champs and still hit like the adc?

@"lol i died again" LOL has always been about pushing, fighting is a trivial thing after laning phase that makes us feel more like winners after we push in for the win after an ace. In truth if you just apply constant lane pressure in 2/3 lanes over your opponent and don't die while doing it you'll win 9 times out of 10. Hard to get my teammates to accept that though unless im playing Yi and dunk towers like nobodies business.


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AnonTwo

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Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouL1ess View Post
Nothing about the stats, passive and active on BotRK need nerfs.
It's just that the cost is so low, every ADC is rushing it. I don't see a game where the ADC's first item is NOT BotRK anymore, and BotRK was supposed to a niche-item, not a must-buy.
Most champions had arpen in some shape or form to counteract armor anway was basically the problem.

It wasn't just a counter. it was just all around good.


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jmido

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordTobiothan View Post
There's a difference between "counter" and "make completely irrelevant" It's like the old black cleaver, it didn't make you hit harder vs armored targets it made building armor entirely pointless. Botrk makes building HP pointless because it will take the same amount of hits to kill you regardless of your HP pool so why bother spending gold on increasing it?
What's the point of playing ADC/Mage when HP stacking just makes your damage seem insignificant? The BotRK is great because not only does it make adc's worth playing again but now people might build something other than HP and this indirectly helps mages as well.

BotRK isn't all that great against targets without loads of hp. Chances are, someone with a bloodthirster or IE will burst you much faster than you can widdle them down with the BotRK.There are items you can build to counter BotRK as well. I don't really see the problem.


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IdkiPickedaName

Senior Member

03-05-2013

It's really strong even if you're not stacking HP

An item that should be a niche item being strong when it's not being used to fill it's designed niche means that that item should be adjusted to better fit the niche it was designed for.


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AnonTwo

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Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmido View Post
What's the point of playing ADC/Mage when HP stacking just makes your damage seem insignificant? The BotRK is great because not only does it make adc's worth playing again but now people might build something other than HP and this indirectly helps mages as well.
Here's why BoTRK is OP in my opinion, in a clean to understand way:
DFG counters health stacking as well, and also uses 15% max health as well. Why aren't APs using that?


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Sojs

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Senior Member

03-05-2013

hp stacking is more fun


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Morello

Lead Designer

03-05-2013
1 of 1 Riot Posts

One thing to talk about;

Nerf does not equal sucks, and wanting something to be good doesn't mean we want it to be OP.

BotRK will still be effective against health-stacking teams, and great on some characters (Quinn, Irelia). It won't be good on everyone in every situation.


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Seraph Scion

Senior Member

03-05-2013

All they need to do is up the gold cost maybe 400 - 600g and then it would return to being a niche item.


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Pryotra

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Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
One thing to talk about;

Nerf does not equal sucks, and wanting something to be good doesn't mean we want it to be OP.

BotRK will still be effective against health-stacking teams, and great on some characters (Quinn, Irelia). It won't be good on everyone in every situation.
Jesus, then set the record straight. In the other thread, Xyph stated that it would most likely be overnerfed, then creeped back up. I think you and him should talk. About alot of things.

Edit: I grabbed one of the quotes, though I am pretty sure he said this more than once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
At the moment, the changes look like bumping the cost to be equivalent with BT (around a 350 gold cost increase), reducing the damage by 5 and changing the active heal to be post-mitigation.

While this is probably a little much in terms of overnerfing - now that everyone is aware of the power of the item tangentially, it makes it a lot easier to slow-creep it back to a good state without overshooting (which slow-creeping often does.)


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