Isn't Rengar a little bit too weak?

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Hollywood Cool

Senior Member

03-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
*deep breath*

Rengar, when winning, is extremely hard to deal with. He has free sustain, tons of damage and ton of survivability. I speak as a rengar top player that he's incredibly snowbally, much like classic riven. I say "when he gets the first kill" because he has the toolkit early game to do just that easily.

I find him viable top and I have a lot of fun playing him in that role. I win most of games when my jungler gets me the first kill. I lose games when I get bullied out.

Could he use some love? Perhaps. However, as a Rengar player, I find him fun, ambushy and super risky. Adding too much baseline power only would make him incredibly frustrating.
If Rengar is winning and he's very hard to deal with it's either you gave him two pentakills within the first ten minutes or you've also fed the enemy team and he's able to feed off of the assists with bonetooth necklace, cherry picked some of the leftovers that didn't immediately die in the teamfight, and can afford to buy items far quicker than the other team. Only in very specific situations can Rengar truly snowball, and that specific situation is when the rest of his team is also snowballing and when you get right down to it any champion can do that as well, but remain useful even if such a situation never came about.


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Spiritside

Senior Member

03-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
I think it's a valid complaint that his jungling is on the weak side. He lacks super hard ganks and even Dekar has a rough time jungling with him.

Do you think thats because the jungling role doesn't give him the opportunity to snowball the way toplane does - or is it something else like his slow initial clear speed?
It's his clearspeed, for sure, and he's incredibly vulnerable to counterjungling. Rengar needs to be able to do a lot of damage to be effective, and he just can't if you build him so that he can jungle without getting owned by creeps. I've jungled him a lot less than I've played him top lane, but I pretty much have to go 9/21/0 not to get destroyed. Again, that leaves him without high damage output.

You also have to build him in a way that doesn't exactly play to his real strength (as you can in top lane), which is to build bruta, kindlegem, tooth. The Dekar build makes him viable -- CDR, damage+pen, early health - it gives him just enough damage to get himself fed, enough CDR to sustain/survive lane, and enough extra HP to live through a little bit of punishment. His jungle build path just sets him too far behind.

Because of his early jungle, his ganks are late compared to other junglers, and are less effective unless you can use the side bushes to close gaps. His level 6 ganks would be more potent if not for the weak early game and the necessity of Wriggle's Lantern to make his clearspeed not unbearably slow, although the level 6 gank is still pretty scary, even considering that you're not buillding damage.

Bottom line is that Rengar is completely useless without damage, whereas other junglers right now can just build one damage item, then convert to tanky stats and still do much more in the game than him, utility and damage-wise.

He's a very binary character right now - either unstoppable or useless. Going jungle almost guarantees that he will be useless.


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Dextii

Senior Member

03-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
If anyone would like to play a game, I'll accept the first invite and go Rengar top. Then you guys can post screenshots when I feed embarassingly.

Edit: Game accepted!



I think you've nailed it. This makes a lot of sense.
Xelnath i've got a fix for his bad early game.

His Q damage, 110% at rank 1, 120% rank 2, 130% rank 3, 140% rank 4 and 150% rank five.

Buff his W armor and MR to an extent (not as high as it was before)

He now has survivability to jungle mobs and top lane, has real burst which makes people scared of him like other assassins, still flaws e.g. no escape but he makes up for it with his tankiness.


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Hollywood Cool

Senior Member

03-02-2013

My suggestion is making the W's base armor/mr boost passive, rather than a boost if active, boost his Health Regen to 6.5 and follow Dextii's Q suggestion. A little bit more health would be nice too.


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xKHORNExLORD420

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Senior Member

03-02-2013

Morde needs a lot more love then rengar


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Hollywood Cool

Senior Member

03-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbr1 En Brazil View Post
Morde needs a lot more love then rengar
Mordekaiser's pretty good all due considering.


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Wero34

Senior Member

03-02-2013

his w should reduce damage from monster to help his early jungle


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Hollywood Cool

Senior Member

03-02-2013

Also a question. Why does Rengar's W scale off of ability power? I think it should scale off AD+how many rage stacks ya got.


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Vecuu

Senior Member

03-02-2013

Rengar doesn't have the flexibility needed to be a strong jungler.

Most junglers watch the minimap, see a situation, react to it, and net their team kills.

However, for Rengar, your ganks are much weaker when you don't have 4/5 Ferocity. As such, you often have to go out of your way to increase your ganking effectiveness, which really hurts your ability to react quickly and effectively. If you gank with 0-2 Ferocity, you're just asking for the enemy to walk away unscathed more often than not, which sets you behind time, farm, and levels.


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Macguffin

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Senior Member

03-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
If anyone would like to play a game, I'll accept the first invite and go Rengar top. Then you guys can post screenshots when I feed embarassingly.
So when exactly did the ability of a game designer to play a champion affect their power level in the slightest? Was it the beginning of S3? or the end of S2? I'd like to know.