These Riot posts telling people to ignore pick order are doing massive harm.

First Riot Post
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Nbur

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stray Logos View Post
I've been sitting back reading almost every post in this thread... my question is... why can't we have both?

I agree with Grif that communication and divvying out roles at the start is better than pick order, but as many people have displayed on this thread (both through their experiences and through some people's behavior) many people are not willing to do this. Why can't we have pick order to fall back on? Stating that pick order > everything is not what I think a lot of people want. We just want there to be some kind of rule to which the troll players can be held accountable.

Take this scenario if we had the rule that pick order comes first....
Player 1: Top
Player 3: Top
Player 1: Hey man I have pick order, I'll get top
Player 3: But I'm a great top, mind if I take?
Player 1: (Two options here) Fine you can have it.
Naw man I'm gonna take, first pick comes first.

In this scenario the inclusion of pick order priority did not stop negotiation from happening, and in reality if the person with the higher pick order is not willing to trade, then even without the "rule of pick order" they would still most likely respond the same way. If they are pig headed and want their role, with absolutely 0 rules in place they are still going to instalock it. At least with "rule of pick order" we will have some justification for it, which should cut down on fighting. If people still instalock a role after the person with pick order has it, then they are refusing to communicate effectively with their team, simple as that.

I'm writing this in the middle of writing up annotated bibliographies, so I hope my mind is not too scattered and what I'm posting makes sense.
what if that communication happened PRE game... communication can take umteen different forms. the fact that most people want to be able to let their team know they will play X role, X role, and X role prior to entering champ select in the form of a queue selection is the same thing.... accept you dont have 3 people trying to go mid ....


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MiaoLong

Senior Member

02-25-2013

I wonder if someone S2 pays Hashinshin for every b*tch he makes about League since it might as well be his job title now.


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obsidiankatana

Senior Member

02-25-2013

I solve this problem by being good at every role. I own all but two of the champions within the League and am if not proficient with, at least passable with them all.

Also, hi Grif! Always glad to see active reds.


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Ding an Sich

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I feel like the sample of people posting otherwise in this thread is a minority. I don't know how it is in higher Elos, but at my low Elo, with the attitude I bring, things are not a problem in my experience, in the vast majority of games.
Well it makes sense doesn't it? Lyte has talked about this when it comes to afk's or actual toxic people, but the number of them doesn't even come close to 10% of the population, yet their impact while very few are more memorable than the 100 other games that went off without a hitch.

I so very much remember the time a teemo flamed my team, and then me because we were losing/I talked back in a joke. However I scarcely remember the time where I had my first Penta kill on swain, or my very first Heimdinger game (Heimdinger was the first champ I bought with earned ip in season 0 and I played him for about 60 straight games).

Too strong a recency effect, not enough hindsight..


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dreadnickaflug

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curlyfry View Post
Im going to be honest, I did jungle from Silver 1 to plat and ONLY Jungle. I wasnt going to give up my best role I knew I could carry, I didn't care about pick order or anything. Sure it made me an *******, but we won a lot. I flew to plat skipping gold 4 and 2 constantly carrying my games because I did what was best for winning. Sure I could be like you Griftrix and chill with everyone and make us work as a team. But then again I would probably still be Silver 1 that way. Or maybe Bronze 2. Its solo queue after all.

I went from silver s2 and am on the cusp of Platinum right now negotiating roles but trying my best to play the roles I'm good at.


It is solo queue and if being jerks works for you that's cool, but it's still a team game and emphasizing the team has worked for me.


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jimlaheysadrunk

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BishoPXL View Post
I'm sorry, thats just a flat out lie.

agreed. not sure how you can be bronze and have a good experience more than you have a bad one.

im silver V and i will always be silver V because of toolsheds in character select, or afkers, or complete and total noobs. all 3 of which should not be allowed in ranked play.

this thread makes me more and more sad as it goes on.

worst community in games? yep, for sure.


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Catonmars

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Senior Member

02-25-2013

@Griftrix

Just going to preface this by saying that I've played more ranked than I'm proud to admit and I've gotten up to diamond this season using a similar strategy that you propose, but there is one thing I feel that is left unsaid by Riot that needs to be cleared up.

Sometimes there are situations where there is no "Good answer". As an example I have been in games before where I'm 3rd-5th pick and none of bottom players can play support. My support is bad, I'm not afraid to admit it, I cannot play it at a diamond level. While this may be the case for the others as well, in this case I will always play triage and just pick what I'm best at when I'm not comfortable filling for what others also aren't best at. I've also had some last picks respond to this by trolling and picking something like support Yi or something along those lines.

It's times like this that I feel riot needs to make a clear stand that when negotiation fails and no one can play the selected role, the pick order has priority and you can't just pick something counter intuitive to your entire team in hopes that someone dodges. Once a higher pick chooses their roles, they can't retroactively pick, even if they want to just to avoid the trolling. There has to be something that pushes people towards civility in situations like this.


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Ogdain

Member

02-25-2013

I'll be honest, I wish Riot emphasized pick order. I understand that it's not an ideal solution, but I am so tired of the chaos and race to type roles into chat every ranked game that it would be a welcome respite. When I'm the 5th guy, I'll gladly take whatever is left. When I'm 1st or 2nd, I'll listen to what those below say, but in the end it's my prerogative.

I think everyone needs to be passable at all roles if they're going to play ranked. If you "only" play top lane, eventually you're going to get into a game where someone else "only" plays top lane, and then I feel sorry for whoever is on your team.

In short, it's anarchy every champ select, and though I enjoy mixing it up and playing all roles, it becomes taxing when less considerate and versatile players constantly abuse the system.


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TerasDominicus

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I have faith that our community is mature enough to discover that talking to the other players and working things out together is the best strategy.

You're not playing enough ranked.


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Kyrul

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Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I feel like the sample of people posting otherwise in this thread is a minority. I don't know how it is in higher Elos, but at my low Elo, with the attitude I bring, things are not a problem in my experience, in the vast majority of games.
It's hard to say how much ELO has an effect on experiences. I'd venture to say that *most* games people are reasonable enough to at least make a workable team composition.

However, with some frequency (often enough that it should be considered a real problem) there will be games where 2+ teammates fight over a role and there isn't really anything you as a 3rd person can do to stop them. The problem here is that the other 3 non-fighting teammates for the other 2's stubbornness.

I would expect Platinum+ players to be passable at every role and Gold+ (and even Silver) to be passable with at least 2-3 roles. I would not have the same expectation for Bronze due to the indication of lack of playtime to be able to learn multiple roles. But at least at mid-to-high elo, enforcing pick order is a reasonable band-aid to the problem of filling roles, so that all but the most stubborn players will just accept that they have to play something they don't necessarily want to.

My own attitude only resolves conflicts involving me, not those involving other players, especially those so hell-bent on picking what they want that any number of voices isn't going to stop them.