These Riot posts telling people to ignore pick order are doing massive harm.

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CapnPie

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
Thanks for the heads up <internet fist bump>
The problem is when although you communicate, maybe some other people don't.

A hypothetical scenario.
Mr 1, 2,3,4 and you all enter lobby.
Mr1: Top
Mr2: Support main, only play support
Mr3: Mid or feed
Mr4: Jungle
You: Hey guys, I'll go anywhere, but just letting you know that my ADC is pretty bad.
...
...
...
You: Anyone willing to trade roles with me? I'm sure someone could play it better
...
...
...
Game starts: You were forced to play ADC, and attempt to try your best

A few early losses, and soon the enemy ADC is snowballing.
Mr2: omg noob adc can't last hit.
You: I did tell you guys that I wasn't the best at ADC.
Mr4: All report ADC, noob Ezreal.


It really leaves you with a sour taste in your mouth.

Imagine if this happened to YOU, seeing as how you admittedly are a terrible adc.


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aaexx

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Senior Member

02-25-2013

Griftx, you may not have Riot in your name, but you need to realize your opinions have more weight than others in a thread like this. If you post 20+ times, you're dominating the discussion. Only the posts you respond to get read, since in a 50 page thread, the easiest way to navigate is to click "Next Red Post." It seems as though you've said all you need to say, so you should probably just exit the thread before you completely derail it with personal responses, or get back on topic.

Back on topic: Do you think you're stuck in Bronze 2 because you're so pliable that you don't get roles/champs you can carry with? Or do you believe that is where you should be?


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WrentheFaceless

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
Edited out the parts of your post in my quote where you raged...

You can be right (in your own mind, in this particular situation) or you can have a game where players are working together as a team. Your call.

But the guy in the scenario already decided that his personal enjoyment was greater than the 'team' by calling a spot

People that call a spot aren't interested in teamwork, they're interested in their own personal enjoyment at the expense of everyone else on the team.


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Honzo

Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Camel Rider View Post
I have about a 70% win rate as support... in quite a large number of games.

You want to call that luck?
You seem to be missing my point, a lot of my games this season have been as Leona as I try to take the support role when no one else wants it. I do not enjoy playing support but I realize its my best chance at winning and it defuses situations so I do it often to help the team. My point is that even doing this I often have games where people troll because they have a dispute about call/pick order and no matter how much I try to help them they still troll. Usually I will dodge (and be punished for 30 mins) to avoid a bad game but when I have had many promotion games where I can't dodge and am forced to play in this situation. So by being a good guy I usually have to play a class I don't like and am not the best at and frequently have to sit out for 30 minutes for dodging toxic games. I hope you get my point this time.


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Yma Sumac

Member

02-25-2013

Honestly, bar people from playing ranked until they own 20 people, have at least 4 rune pages, and 200 normal games played

so sick and tired of children who play solo Q demanding things without having the courtesy to work together or listen to others. They refuse to suppport, jungle, even buy wards when they get their roles


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Stray Logos

Senior Member

02-25-2013

I've been sitting back reading almost every post in this thread... my question is... why can't we have both?

I agree with Grif that communication and divvying out roles at the start is better than pick order, but as many people have displayed on this thread (both through their experiences and through some people's behavior) many people are not willing to do this. Why can't we have pick order to fall back on? Stating that pick order > everything is not what I think a lot of people want. We just want there to be some kind of rule to which the troll players can be held accountable.

Take this scenario if we had the rule that pick order comes first....
Player 1: Top
Player 3: Top
Player 1: Hey man I have pick order, I'll get top
Player 3: But I'm a great top, mind if I take?
Player 1: (Two options here) Fine you can have it.
Naw man I'm gonna take, first pick comes first.

In this scenario the inclusion of pick order priority did not stop negotiation from happening, and in reality if the person with the higher pick order is not willing to trade, then even without the "rule of pick order" they would still most likely respond the same way. If they are pig headed and want their role, with absolutely 0 rules in place they are still going to instalock it. At least with "rule of pick order" we will have some justification for it, which should cut down on fighting. If people still instalock a role after the person with pick order has it, then they are refusing to communicate effectively with their team, simple as that. It basically gives the playerbase a method of punishing people who are unwilling to work with their team right from the start. Negotiation can still happen between mature individuals, the pick order would simply be used as a fallback for when negotiations begin to fall apart, or if there are MID OR FEED players.

I'm writing this in the middle of writing up annotated bibliographies, so I hope my mind is not too scattered and what I'm posting makes sense.


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The Camel Rider

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by tempname950 View Post
Because you can play something you enjoy playing, instead of something you hate for 40 minutes.


Or are you saying that winning is the only thing that matters? Would you like to make that an official stance?

If you arent playing to win, you shouldnt be playing ranked.

That IS an official stance.


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Nbur

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
Edited out the parts of your post in my quote where you raged...

You can be right (in your own mind, in this particular situation) or you can have a game where players are working together as a team. Your call.
YUMMM

sweet justice, now BAN HAMMER


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zeroempathy

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helleus View Post
Regardless, it's clear that the current system has it's flaws. I've bullied my way into a role sometimes, I admit it. This approach can be effective, but honestly found that a nicer approach works better:

" I'm taking top, I don't care what you say." or "If you don't let me go top i'm feeding"

doesn't work as well as

"I really want to top as ___, he's me main " or "I'd prefer top as it's be best role"

This never works 100% of the time, but anyone who expects their way 100% of the time is living in a dream world.
This is true. I list my best 2 roles, as well as my worst role at the start of every game and don't have alot of issues anymore. I get the role I want (support lol!) 80% of the time and fill when needed or if we have a duo wanting bot. Hell yesterday I even got a duo that split up and filled instead of demanding bot or feed.
I still get occassional double locks (or a zyra demanding support and only uses seeds to ward all game) but such is life. End game and hit play again


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azragni

Junior Member

02-25-2013

Griftrix, I think most competent people get your point. Try and be a nice guy for the team in a team game is helpful. The problem arises when people do butt heads there is no proper stance. Elo should be the set in stone go to rule if people cannot get along, and yes people should still talk together and try and work things out. But right now there is no rule to fall back on if things get ugly, and sometimes they get very ugly.