These Riot posts telling people to ignore pick order are doing massive harm.

First Riot Post
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March of Dimes

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
YOU can make it happen, next time someone wants the same role as you.
So if I choose not to be the guy who compromises, the burden's on everyone else to work around me AND I still get my way? If you have one group of players who are especially selfish in champ select and breed most of the conflict over roles, why embrace a policy that caters to them?!


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tehdef

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
It's not only about whether he's better at top than you. It's about if him at top and you somewhere else is in total a better combination than you top and him somewhere else. Looking at which of you is better top is the same problem as saying X champion is better top than jungle. It's not a question of are they better top or jungle, it's a question of if they are not top, is there a champion to fill top that is better at it, and also if they are jungle, are they better than some other champion there? It's opportunity cost. You have to think about what you are and aren't getting with the choice, not just 1 part of it.

Did I explain this well? I think I may have clouded it up.
Players don't think this way, Grif. They really don't. They care more about their personal experience than compromise. This system places our LP in jeopardy, and frankly? It's not fun.

Your goal here is a SEAMLESS and FUN experience. The Ranked lobby DOES NOT accomplish that. For you to say otherwise is naivety to a point that it detracts from your ability to be successful.


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AotW King

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryedan View Post
The reality is, we would need to make structural changes to the game flow to enforce either side. It would be dumb to take a stance on this issue but still allow people to operate as if that stance did not exist.

It's not like we fundamentally agree there should be confusion and anarchy every champion select. We agree it's not fun to "negotiate" fun.
Good point, but I think that what people don't understand is that the picking confusion in ranked isn't separate from other problems in the game community.

Honestly I don't think Riot is heavy handed enough yet. I understand that it is hard to say you know what you've been reported in 2% of your 1000 games but that's too many.

If it were me at Riot I would probably investigate what the outcome of such tactics like Instant perma ban for racism for start followed by other heavy topics.

I don't inherently agree with the picking order being important I feel if a team can't work together and comprise all around that it shouldn't pin the blame on last pick.

I'm also not talking about "mid or feed" players These ones need to go, threatening to feed if not getting ones way should be a insta ban IMHO, Yeah racism is bad and sexism but Your being Threatened by people!

Also in normal insta locking/calling role are equivalently bad, and I do insta lock often enough when there is a champ I want to play but thats what normal games are for.

Also If your in ranked and your scared to break the Meta your going to go no where, Relax, a fancy trick like all tele revive for 1 or 2 10 vs 5 team fights have won more games then you know.

Have Fun.


P.S. Very very rarely do you encounter people who are actively trolling or wanting to lose. You get other people who see first pick in order flail top and then proceed to blame the bad jungler or support that they didn't want to be and it is also part of the problem.

My Tip: After working in the service industry and any business that deals with customers you are taught a very simple phrase which is AMAZINGLY important. If a customer has a problem with something or in a game of LoL if bot lane fed cait 3 kills and your thinking about how bad they are remember this.

"I know I did not cause this problem but I am responsible for fixing it and if I pass the work and fault off to the person who made the mistake I'm just as much a part of the problem as the person who made a mistake."

Cheers.


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IS13c7fafe7804f7429d10e

Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
YOU can make it happen, next time someone wants the same role as you.
Griftix, you don't get it.

They don't want to give their thing to someone else, they want to have an official legitimation to tell someone to **** off and play X because nobody wants to and he/she got the short end of the stick.

They don't want to cooperate, they want a right to be jerks and ignore people because they have a right to do it.

That's the whole point why people keep arguing about pick order/call order enforcement. They want their own point of view be an official law that everyone has to adhere to or be punished.


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SPACEPISTOL

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Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
It's not only about whether he's better at top than you. It's about if him at top and you somewhere else is in total a better combination than you top and him somewhere else. Looking at which of you is better top is the same problem as saying X champion is better top than jungle. It's not a question of are they better top or jungle, it's a question of if they are not top, is there a champion to fill top that is better at it, and also if they are jungle, are they better than some other champion there? It's opportunity cost. You have to think about what you are and aren't getting with the choice, not just 1 part of it.

Did I explain this well? I think I may have clouded it up.

Basic Economics FTW!


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Skyhawke

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Am I the only person that doesn't have problems with this? 9 times out of 10, everyone finds a role they're okay with if even a couple people have the attitude Grifftrix is mentioning. I think people are only remembering the "1 out of 10" in this thread that goes poorly.

Edit: Downvotes? lol


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Griftrix

Senior Animation Engineer

02-25-2013
12 of 59 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by March of Dimes View Post
So if I choose not to be the guy who compromises, the burden's on everyone else to work around me AND I still get my way? If you have one group of players who are especially selfish in champ select and breed most of the conflict over roles, why embrace a policy that caters to them?!
How will being as stubborn as them make your game experience better?


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Riesgraf

Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by roken Wings View Post
I don't post a lot in the forums, but I will say this:

Almost every ranked game I play, I do not get to play my desired role (mid). I usually end up as support or jungle because they are typically the least desired. I am always "flexible" and "compromising" and never get what I want now. Compromise is suppose to be give and take. Not give give give. I am so scared of trolls now that if I am first pick and called mid first, I will generally let the whoever asked for it play it because at least they will be half-cooperative during the game. (Until they feed and blame everyone else.)

I always try to mediate in champ select and will play the least desired role, yet in almost 3/5 of my game I will get two people fighting over a role and it always ends with trolling. I beg these players to keep trying and not AFK in game, but as someone said before "they're teaching so-and-so a lesson" and "gg noobs it doesn't matter I won't get banned for this".

I have invested a lot of time and even money in this game and I have never been more disappointed in a game community and yes I have played COD and that says a lot. No matter how nice you are, how encouraging, supporting, you can be you will get trolled in at least fifty percent of your games.

This happens FAR too often for Riot to not do something about it. I think that the majority of players would find this commonplace. As soon as the champ select lobby loads, you'd get people rushing to see who can copy/paste the fastest. God forbid if there happens to be two people who pasted the same thing. Two people calling mid? The likelihood of them resolving the conflict peacefully is far too low to put your hopes on. More often than not, you'd see bickering, abuse hurling and finally, trolling. Simply put, the community as a whole is NOT mature enough to resolve this in a amicable manner. During the all too rare incidents when you'd be lucky enough to get people who are willing to be flexible on your team, the timer isn't enough to discuss roles. Imagine how pressed for time you'd be if you don't get teammates who aren't complete raging ******s.

The anonymity that the Internet provides has done a great deal in fostering a general sense of self-entitlement and it allows people to be complete raging *******s, It has always been understood that there will always be consequences for our actions, and we will have to bear said consequences. If you called someone a ****ing useless ****bag (just ONE example of the very many insults that take place in LoL games) to their face, it's all too likely you're going to get punched in the throat. However, those insults fly readily all the time online because there is no consequence that you'd have to suffer. None that would cause you a great deal of distress anyway.

What's the worst that could happen if you call someone a ****face dickhead in LoL? You'd just get muted, have insults thrown back or slapped with a time ban at the most. Most times, people don't even bother reporting excessive cursing because it's gotten so commonplace and they're too used to it. So what? Big deal. It's just another kid raging. But what happens is that this behaviour will only escalate. They rage and curse. It doesn't get their desired effect? They start trolling and throwing matches. After all, THEY will not suffer any sort of consequences online. The most severe punishment? A perma-ban. That's just to their account though. They'd just go on to create another account or carry the same behaviour to another game.

Something clearly needs to be done by Riot instead of the blatant waffling that's going on.


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Dèíty

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Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryedan View Post
It makes sense to come up with a comprehensive solution that allows both sides to be happy with a match. It's worth devoting resources to, but I can't come in and promise specific solutions all willy-nilly. It's a complex problem, not matter how many "silver bullet" solutions people can throw out.

All I can say is that we totally agree that it's a problem and it's worth solving correctly.
Perfectly reasonable, very happy to see the acknowledgment, that's the important thing here. Thanks!


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Retired Noob

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Member

02-25-2013

I find two problems with trying to communicate, assuming people aren't complete Annie smite/revive kind of trolls. The first, is when people just don't say anything until it's they're turn to pick. Uncooperative people is annoying. Second, Is when a bunch of people try to call a lane, and it would take 5 minutes to actually figure out how to make it work. I'm all for the cooperation thing, but I rarely have quite enough time to finish deciding, especially since people don't wait for bans so we can talk team comp.