Female LoL Players

First Riot Post
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Citori

Senior Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotSchmick View Post
Aww, that's all you have to say? I thought you wanted a *discussion*. : P
Your posts are intelligent, a pleasure to read, and full of rebuttal. In other words, you argue correctly and it's refreshing to read. If you want to keep the discussion rolling let others believe they have a shot to debate you.


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Kirielis

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Senior Member

02-23-2013

I'm curious to know whether you've ever been patronised for being female. It's my experience that people tend to just assume the girl is less competent than them at whatever game they're playing, despite all evidence to the contrary, and despite me constantly telling them that hey, I brought her in because she's good at what she does, can you just accept it already and move on.


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Kakyoin Noriaki

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Senior Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buy a ward View Post
Your posts are intelligent, a pleasure to read, and full of rebuttal. In other words, you argue correctly and it's refreshing to read. If you want to keep the discussion rolling let others believe they have a shot to debate you.
It's more that she posted on the next day, and I didn't have time to respond to her adequately until later. But yeah, she made some very solid points that hold their water.


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ScarPirate

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Senior Member

02-23-2013

something


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RuSK47

Senior Member

02-23-2013

How does Riot know how many girls play their game?

Its not like we ever had to say our gender when we created an account ( or did we? it's been forever ).

Also i feel like a survey to be accurate would have to involve a very large number. Also different cultures i imagine would be different.

is it 10% for NA or global?


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Tizies

Junior Member

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Kakyoin Noriaki

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Senior Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RuSK47 View Post
How does Riot know how many girls play their game?

Its not like we ever had to say our gender when we created an account ( or did we? it's been forever ).

Also i feel like a survey to be accurate would have to involve a very large number. Also different cultures i imagine would be different.

is it 10% for NA or global?
I'd really like to find out where they got that statistic, because I just don't see how they could find a statistic for all the reasons you listed.


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NannerNe

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Senior Member

02-23-2013

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Originally Posted by gK Waldo View Post
Girls don't like saying they're girls because us guys are all like "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBS" and if I were a girl I'd find that really, really annoying.
I figure they're just impressed with my ability to play by slapping fatsacks on my keyboard. Because that's totally how girls play.

That is, that's what I'd figure if I were a human female and not, in fact, a bear.


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KiyoSpirit

Senior Member

02-23-2013

People either harass you or treat you like **** if you tell them you're a girl. So, I don't really tell unless I'm directly asked when I'm carrying a team. :P


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RiotSchmick

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Software Engineer

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02-24-2013
15 of 20 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakyoin Noriaki View Post
I had some things to do. Y'know, life getting in the way of posting on the forums. Now, let's get crackin'. Shame on me for leaving a lady hanging.
Oh, you just confused me by responding without making any comments. I assumed that was your final word on it. I don't usually see people reply to a post twice. : )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakyoin Noriaki View Post
I suppose without dragging Lyte into this, it would be difficult to continue discussing this more in-depth. That said, there is really no need to go beyond "being a victim of sexism is bad, male or female." Simply put, that's how it is, but then the question of what Riot can do about it will arise. By and large, adding pre- and post-game chat would alleviate some of the pressure of this problem, but Lyte has heard that suggested more times than he can shake his PB&J stick at by now. I think getting some updated statistics as well as an option to report someone for being sexist is required to accurately tackle the situation...but this brings up a question that I'm not sure has been answered fully: how did Riot acquire gender information for the ~90% male to female ratio statistic?
I have no idea how that data was gathered, so I can't speak to that. As far as reporting people for being sexist, to me, it's the same type of offense as being racist and there's no specific report for that either. They both fall into the general category of harassing or being offensive, and those acts are what you can report someone for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakyoin Noriaki View Post
I don't have anything to add to this, other than "I agree." I also think it should be fine to want to correct someone if they are saying words that are offending you, but often times it's not easy to do that without them thinking "aha, so I am getting to them. Better lay it on more!"
I agree. Generally the troll will just delight in knowing he's getting to you, so I usually just ignore them. If the person seems mild to start, I might try asking them to tone it done or let them know they are being offensive, but if they escalate from there, then I go ahead and ignore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakyoin Noriaki View Post
This works fine, but what about how much influence it has on other teammates? There was an issue brought up in GD before about how toxic players in turn cause others to be toxic. If someone in your game is being overly toxic in some way, and it's negatively affecting your allies or possibly even your opponents to the point where they are about to start negatively contributing to it as well, just ignoring them may still be problematic for others. I trust that a majority of players will try to hold their team together in cases like this, but it's still a problem through and through. This is a bit of a tangent though, so I digress.
It is absolutely true that toxic behavior is contagious, if for no other reason than having people rage or insult you or feed or do whatever they are doing to be negative, in turn makes you grumpy or agitated. However, as we both just stated, generally telling these toxic people that they are being offensive or asking them to tone it down just makes it worse, so often I find that the entire team ignoring the person is the best course of action for everyone. In situations where I have tried asking the person the please desist and they escalate, and I see my teammates getting flustered and arguing with them, I encourage them to ignore the person, too, and just play, rather than trying to type responses the whole game, which will just make their performance, and enjoyment of the game, suffer more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakyoin Noriaki View Post
In this case, I meant positive attention to mean any behavior or interaction regarding your gender that even slightly pleases or relieves you. I agree that things like flirting, as long as they aren't irritating or immature ("OMG SHOW ME YER BOOBS HOTTIE!!1!!!1!"), are fine.
I'm not sure that there is any interaction specific to my gender that pleases or relieves me in the gaming context, unless you want to count simply being relieved that, if my gender is known, no one reacts negatively. What pleases me, probably like most of us, is people being glad that I'm on their team or telling me I'm doing well (and of course winning :P), but I enjoy those things independently of anyone knowing my gender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakyoin Noriaki View Post
As far as being excited to meet girl gamers, I'm going to admit that if I have suspicions that a player I played with is female, that may give me a bit more motivation to add them and/or ask post-game, but the least I will say if they answer in the affirmative is "Ha, that's cool" and maybe ask why they play the game, or something along those lines. Why do I do that if it seems blatantly sexist? Because of pleasant personal experiences with female gamers and female interaction as a whole. I could care less if someone is male or female if they're pleasant to play with and talk to, but I like to see diversity and I feel that females usually have more depth even in an online medium. Seeing signs of one just gives me a bit more motivation to reach out and possibly make another friend.

Schmick, I'm curious to hear what you have to say about this biased behavior of mine.
I think your behavior is fine. If you have had good experiences with group X, then you will want to continue interacting with group X - that's just normal human behavior. You aren't hurting or repressing anyone by doing so, so I don't see a problem. Who you want to spend your personal time with, playing games or doing whatever else, is your business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakyoin Noriaki View Post
Thank you for addressing this issue. If a female gamer says "actually I'm a girl" when being referred to as a dude or a guy or whatever, that doesn't mean they're trying to be superior about it. Chances are good that it's just bothersome, but there are some very concrete issues like masculine phrases ("Every man for himself!" or "sup dudes") that are now generally accepted by females as simply implying total party inclusiveness.

But now I have another question: how much does it bother you when a teammate refers to the entire group with such masculine phrases? Would you like to see neutral phrases like "everyone" or "peeps" more often instead?
Nah, that doesn't bother me. A lot of languages default to using masculine pronouns when referring to a group of people, regardless of whether the entire group is male, or only some are. I don't personally find that offensive. Furthermore, I think a lot of these kinds of terms, like "dudes", have become gender-neutral over time anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaltu View Post
It's driving away a huge pool of potential customers. That's certainly not unique to Riot and there are also other factors driving women away from video games but it's something Riot should definitely concern themselves with if for no other reason than monetary gain. There's no reason women can't find just as much enjoyment from League of Legends as men and to be honest that low percentage is embarrassing to me as a fan of League of Legends and as a gamer in general. No other form of art has such a wide gap between the sexes.
I agree that it's driving away potential customers, but I don't agree that it's a separate issue than general poor behavior in the community. As I stated above, harassment or offensive language, in my opinion, is a general problem regardless of the specific form it takes. That issue is of huge concern to Riot and we are constantly working on ways to improve player behavior on those counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkaire View Post
That's strange to me because I've never been bothered when someone addresses me with a masculine term. Nor have a lot of the other girls I've played games with. I honestly don't care if people that I've known for a little while find out, it'll obviously happen if we use voice comms but it's not needed information in basic interactions. I don't need to put "I'm a girl" to make my post have weight. If it doesn't have weight just from the point or the topic then what's the point. I know I'm a girl, and yes it's an integral part of who I am but it doesn't define me. The problem that I have with a lot of these "look I'm a girl!" type posts, even if they don't mean it that way, is because they're speaking (typing) as if being female is the defining characteristic of their person, or in the case of the forums, their post.

I know this isn't everyone but the majority of the women I've encountered who freely spread their gender are just looking for attention. It may not seem that way at first and they may just say that they don't see the point in hiding it but if/when they lose that attention, many a time I've seen their attitudes turn negative very quickly. That's just in my experience though. On the other side, most of the women that I play with don't give a rats ass if people find out eventually, they just want to play a game and/or interact with other people and they don't think that their gender should make any difference in how they interact or how people interact with them.
Well, as I stated in my original post, it may just be a personal thing, but it does bother me, and I know other women it bothers as well. It doesn't just bother me for myself either. There are some other female Rioters that I have been in games with where people were referring to them as he/him the whole time, and even that gave me the same reaction. If it doesn't bother you, then more power to you. If you don't care, and you don't think it's relevant and don't want to bring it up, that's your call. : ) Personally, I don't assume that if someone brings up being female that they want attention purely on the merit of that one statement. I let the behavior they display from that point forward determine my assessment. A lot of the times, it turns out, yeah, that's what seems to be going on, but not always.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buy a ward View Post
Your posts are intelligent, a pleasure to read, and full of rebuttal. In other words, you argue correctly and it's refreshing to read. If you want to keep the discussion rolling let others believe they have a shot to debate you.
<3 That is single nicest thing anyone has ever said to me on the forums. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirielis View Post
I'm curious to know whether you've ever been patronised for being female. It's my experience that people tend to just assume the girl is less competent than them at whatever game they're playing, despite all evidence to the contrary, and despite me constantly telling them that hey, I brought her in because she's good at what she does, can you just accept it already and move on.
I wasn't sure if you were asking me. I have been patronised in the sense of getting reactions like "omg, hawt, show me your boobs", but never in the sense of someone saying "oh, gg, a girl on the team, we're going to lose." I'm sure there are guys who think that, but so far, I fortunately have not experienced anyone saying it to me directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RuSK47 View Post
How does Riot know how many girls play their game?

Its not like we ever had to say our gender when we created an account ( or did we? it's been forever ).

Also i feel like a survey to be accurate would have to involve a very large number. Also different cultures i imagine would be different.

is it 10% for NA or global?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakyoin Noriaki View Post
I'd really like to find out where they got that statistic, because I just don't see how they could find a statistic for all the reasons you listed.
Yeah, sorry, as stated above, I have no idea how that data was gathered.