Female LoL Players

First Riot Post
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Kakyoin Noriaki

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Senior Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotSchmick View Post
Aww, that's all you have to say? I thought you wanted a *discussion*. : P
I had some things to do. Y'know, life getting in the way of posting on the forums. Now, let's get crackin'. Shame on me for leaving a lady hanging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotSchmick View Post
To answer the second question, I think the only way in which it is problematic for Riot is that it's not okay for a person to be treated poorly, regardless of their gender. I don't really care what someone's reason is for treating another person badly, just that if they do, it is an issue for Riot, as well as the community. Lyte and the rest of Player Behavior team are always working on ways to improve our community and how people treat each other in the game.
I suppose without dragging Lyte into this, it would be difficult to continue discussing this more in-depth. That said, there is really no need to go beyond "being a victim of sexism is bad, male or female." Simply put, that's how it is, but then the question of what Riot can do about it will arise. By and large, adding pre- and post-game chat would alleviate some of the pressure of this problem, but Lyte has heard that suggested more times than he can shake his PB&J stick at by now. I think getting some updated statistics as well as an option to report someone for being sexist is required to accurately tackle the situation...but this brings up a question that I'm not sure has been answered fully: how did Riot acquire gender information for the ~90% male to female ratio statistic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotSchmick View Post
To the original question, I have experierenced both types of attention. The negative attention is the same, for me, as any other kind of trolling. When a person starts insulting me for being female, or saying I suck or making sexist comments, well then I ignore them. It's the same thing I do when I'm playing with someone who has no idea I'm female, and starts saying racist things that may not apply to me directly, but I find offensive just the same.
I don't have anything to add to this, other than "I agree." I also think it should be fine to want to correct someone if they are saying words that are offending you, but often times it's not easy to do that without them thinking "aha, so I am getting to them. Better lay it on more!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotSchmick View Post
There was one game where someone on the other team told one of my team mates, "I hope your mom gets cancer." I find that to be the most awful and offensive thing I've ever heard, more so than any negative attention that was ever directed at me for being a girl. So I don't really judge the category of offensive to be relevant as much as the degree. If someone is being offensive, then I don't really care *in what way*. I just ignore them, enjoy my game, and report them after. No reason to let their baggage ruin my good time.
This works fine, but what about how much influence it has on other teammates? There was an issue brought up in GD before about how toxic players in turn cause others to be toxic. If someone in your game is being overly toxic in some way, and it's negatively affecting your allies or possibly even your opponents to the point where they are about to start negatively contributing to it as well, just ignoring them may still be problematic for others. I trust that a majority of players will try to hold their team together in cases like this, but it's still a problem through and through. This is a bit of a tangent though, so I digress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotSchmick View Post
Now as far as positive attention, I'm not sure what exactly that means. Does it mean being flirted with or chatted up, or does it mean someone being super excited that you are a girl gamer and giving you props, or does it mean something else? The former has happened to me, the latter, no. The former is just a neutral thing in my opinion. People flirt and interact socially in all kinds of mediums, and if someone wants to do that in a video game, I won't hold it against them. The latter, if we want to be seen as equal, then we can't really be upset that no one makes a big deal out of us being there and doing our thing.
In this case, I meant positive attention to mean any behavior or interaction regarding your gender that even slightly pleases or relieves you. I agree that things like flirting, as long as they aren't irritating or immature ("OMG SHOW ME YER BOOBS HOTTIE!!1!!!1!"), are fine.

As far as being excited to meet girl gamers, I'm going to admit that if I have suspicions that a player I played with is female, that may give me a bit more motivation to add them and/or ask post-game, but the least I will say if they answer in the affirmative is "Ha, that's cool" and maybe ask why they play the game, or something along those lines. Why do I do that if it seems blatantly sexist? Because of pleasant personal experiences with female gamers and female interaction as a whole. I could care less if someone is male or female if they're pleasant to play with and talk to, but I like to see diversity and I feel that females usually have more depth even in an online medium. Seeing signs of one just gives me a bit more motivation to reach out and possibly make another friend.

Schmick, I'm curious to hear what you have to say about this biased behavior of mine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotSchmick View Post
One other thing I want to comment on is the guys saying that if you let it be known that you are a girl, then you are just looking for attention. I have corrected people before, although I don't always, and the reason is something quite different actually. One's gender is inextricably tied to one's self-identity, in a profound way. Personally, when I'm talking to someone and they repeatedly refer to me as he or him, or address me in other very masculine ways, it makes me cringe. It just feels *wrong* in a way I can't explain unless you have felt it yourself. After enough times, you finally correct the speaker because it just bothers you to be identified in a way that is the opposite of your nature. The only thing I can provide to try to help guys understand is a thought experiment where you imagine being on the other side of that coin, talking to someone who doesn't know your gender and who keeps calling you she or her. If it doesn't bother you, then maybe it's not something that affects all people. I'm guessing, though, that there are other females out there that correct people for this same reason. I'm not saying that females looking for attention don't exist or that my reason is the reason that all females do it, just bringing up another view point.
Thank you for addressing this issue. If a female gamer says "actually I'm a girl" when being referred to as a dude or a guy or whatever, that doesn't mean they're trying to be superior about it. Chances are good that it's just bothersome, but there are some very concrete issues like masculine phrases ("Every man for himself!" or "sup dudes") that are now generally accepted by females as simply implying total party inclusiveness.

But now I have another question: how much does it bother you when a teammate refers to the entire group with such masculine phrases? Would you like to see neutral phrases like "everyone" or "peeps" more often instead?


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Mynt

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Senior Member

02-23-2013

If a player speaks up about their gender, we can assume it matters to them and should be addressed / treated accordingly.

If they don't, then they don't care enough for it to matter to them.

And for that awkward minority of people who are seriously bothered when their gender is mistaken, but don't do anything to change the situation for fear of... people realizing that their gender is the one it is, we can do nothing but let them toil in their own contradiction they've created. You either speak up, or don't. There isn't really a middle ground.


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A Gutsy Ninja

Senior Member

02-23-2013

They are a G.I.R.L

(Guy In Real Life).


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ZeroKuno

Senior Member

02-23-2013

Female or not you either are good at this game or you suck at this game. Gender means nothing. **** talk exists everywhere despite gender. If girls would just ignore what people say it wouldn't even be a problem. It's because a person CARES that makes it a problem. Prove how good you are in the game with skill not words. I still don't understand all these threads. My girlfriend plays League and I just tell her everyone on the internet is an idiot and just ignore them because the ones that talk trash are the ones that go nowhere in life. She agrees and has since then ignored people who talk trash.


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Idaltu

Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakyoin Noriaki View Post
Beyond that, is it problematic for Riot in any way? If it is, is it just like the 'choose which Honor crest to display if you have two or more' issue Lyte addressed previously in that the player base percentage in question is too small to warrant focusing on solving/addressing it?
It's driving away a huge pool of potential customers. That's certainly not unique to Riot and there are also other factors driving women away from video games but it's something Riot should definitely concern themselves with if for no other reason than monetary gain. There's no reason women can't find just as much enjoyment from League of Legends as men and to be honest that low percentage is embarrassing to me as a fan of League of Legends and as a gamer in general. No other form of art has such a wide gap between the sexes.


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Kauljrhn

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Member

02-23-2013

Given the statistic that over 90% of players are male is still valid (as that information is outdated) and supposing that over 90% actually equals 90%

and given that 10 players are in every Summoner's Rift match

Then you could expect to see an average of one female player in every match.


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Retro Shock

Senior Member

02-23-2013

Girls don't like saying they're girls because us guys are all like "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBS" and if I were a girl I'd find that really, really annoying.


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Kauljrhn

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Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by gK Waldo View Post
Girls don't like saying they're girls because us guys are all like "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBS" and if I were a girl I'd find that really, really annoying.
I agree. It has to be annoying. I feel gender shouldn't even be a big deal when most tasks are concerned. Playing League well or not does not correlate to being male or female.


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Valkaire

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Senior Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotSchmick View Post
One's gender is inextricably tied to one's self-identity, in a profound way. Personally, when I'm talking to someone and they repeatedly refer to me as he or him, or address me in other very masculine ways, it makes me cringe. It just feels *wrong* in a way I can't explain unless you have felt it yourself. After enough times, you finally correct the speaker because it just bothers you to be identified in a way that is the opposite of your nature. The only thing I can provide to try to help guys understand is a thought experiment where you imagine being on the other side of that coin, talking to someone who doesn't know your gender and who keeps calling you she or her. If it doesn't bother you, then maybe it's not something that affects all people. I'm guessing, though, that there are other females out there that correct people for this same reason. I'm not saying that females looking for attention don't exist or that my reason is the reason that all females do it, just bringing up another view point.
That's strange to me because I've never been bothered when someone addresses me with a masculine term. Nor have a lot of the other girls I've played games with. I honestly don't care if people that I've known for a little while find out, it'll obviously happen if we use voice comms but it's not needed information in basic interactions. I don't need to put "I'm a girl" to make my post have weight. If it doesn't have weight just from the point or the topic then what's the point. I know I'm a girl, and yes it's an integral part of who I am but it doesn't define me. The problem that I have with a lot of these "look I'm a girl!" type posts, even if they don't mean it that way, is because they're speaking (typing) as if being female is the defining characteristic of their person, or in the case of the forums, their post.

I know this isn't everyone but the majority of the women I've encountered who freely spread their gender are just looking for attention. It may not seem that way at first and they may just say that they don't see the point in hiding it but if/when they lose that attention, many a time I've seen their attitudes turn negative very quickly. That's just in my experience though. On the other side, most of the women that I play with don't give a rats ass if people find out eventually, they just want to play a game and/or interact with other people and they don't think that their gender should make any difference in how they interact or how people interact with them.


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Tsubasa chan

Junior Member

02-23-2013

I saw my male friend that plays LoL the other day and he asked what champions I play and I happily said I mainly support with lulu.... Then remembered reading this thread aha