Anyone else a bit dissapointed with Quinn's design?

First Riot Post
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Fomorian27

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Senior Member

02-14-2013

I'm pretty ok with the armored look. What I don't like is the crossbow that resembles a bird. It seems like a mockery of her avian friend.


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Kanikkers

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jujubee View Post
I personally challenge you to design the look for a future female champ. She has to be the total opposite of your Leona/Diana/Quinn. I honestly believe that what you will come up with will be interesting since your point of view is the total opposite of seductive and sexy. Would this be an acceptable challenge? She doesn't have to be a villain, she could still be alluring while being "good". The dancer thread could be a good fit. A support or melee dps dancer/gypsy/sword dancer champion would be AMAZING.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3122251
Oh DAMN, I'd love this. That dancer concept makes me so happy. Maybe something along the lines of Lee Sin's martial arts style, but with more flow and suppleness?


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Revelationz

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Recall didn't feel right in accordance of Kat's theme or the skin's theme. It felt tacked on and meaningless.

Armored women do = strong, independent. That's just one solution in a host of solutions to making strong independent women. Miss Fortune is a strong independent woman, too.
@IronStylus :

Can we get a strong black independent woman that don'tt need no man!? No not Karma.


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

02-14-2013
16 of 20 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jujubee View Post
I personally challenge you to design the look for a future female champ. She has to be the total opposite of your Leona/Diana/Quinn. I honestly believe that what you will come up with will be interesting since your point of view is the total opposite of seductive and sexy. Would this be an acceptable challenge? She doesn't have to be a villain, she could still be alluring while being "good". The dancer thread could be a good fit. A support or melee dps dancer/gypsy/sword dancer champion would be AMAZING.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3122251
Dancer thing aside..

Challenge already accepted. What do you think I'm doing on relaunches? Sivir's not exactly gaining any clothing at this point.


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AntiSkillshot

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Recall didn't feel right in accordance of Kat's theme or the skin's theme. It felt tacked on and meaningless.

Armored women do = strong, independent. That's just one solution in a host of solutions to making strong independent women. Miss Fortune is a strong independent woman, too.
If this is about Slay Belle Katarina's old and current recall.... atm, it's current recall feels more tacked on than the older one.

I actually agreed with the people that asked or said to just make it's recall the normal one. I had no problem with you changing the recall, it's what you changed it to.


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BergMeister

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Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Some quick context:

Quinn used to be a guy, then I turned her into a woman. That woman is a ranger, she's prepared for a fight, she's wearing thicker armor but not plate aside from key places where she would have to interact with an enemy's face.

Quinn was not designed to be in a skin-tight outfit. That was tried, and look, again, like a woman with a cape, in a skin tight outfit, which had been worked to death by Zyra, Syndra, Elise, and Diana. She does not care about looking feminine, she cares about utility. Baggy fatigues which have hardened pockets, knee pads to dig into the ground to take a shot, no exposed flesh to take a graze.

A functional Demacian helmet which adds sleekness is a design choice. It's Valkyrie, it's a motif, and it's a visual landmark. She has a gauntlet reminiscent of a falconer's glove which is armored because Valor has armor on his talons, to again, interact with an enemy's face. He can do damage to even thick leather.

Her hood is collapsed, she has essentially a themed parka with a bird motif, Functional but themed.

She has what equates to kevlar, thickened material able to resist a blade. She has Demacian signifiers all over her, and bird motifs worked in. She is functional but fantasy.

Regarding femininity, I was called out long ago when Sejuani released for making the reasoning that Sejuani might wear less clothing so that "you can tell she's female." That is an invalid argument and a sad excuse to design a particular way. A ranger, an elite, doesn't care whether you can tell they are a female or a male. They are interested in getting the job done, and having the gear to do so. We gave Quinn that gear and did not embrace the traditional route of the tight-clothed standard fantasy ranger. She's a new ranger for a new time. She hits the Demacian notes but plays off of them. That is the rational behind similar armor themes to Garen and Jarvan. That's how we establish she's in the military proper, but not standard in uniform.

For reference, take a look ad Deunan Knute from Appleseed. She has no boob or breastplates. She is completely covered with a half-helm. She has short hair. She is a bit more masculine, that's the goal. She is not a waif, but she is agile. She has small breasts, a tighter frame, but is fairly androgynous. That's what we wanted to portray, and I feel we hit that.

Honestly, I feel I owe no excuses. You know my history, you know my goals. I design the women in armor. I do not design the over-sexualized, the seductress, or the siren. Different artists gravitate towards different styles and themes. When this champion came along, I opted to work on it because I felt I could bring a different take. Initially, she did start out as a traditional fantasy ranger, and actually was melee at the time. However, that was not the route we wanted to take. That was standard, it was conventional, and it was boring. I drove away from it and made something rugged in the new direction we're trying to take our style. Fantasy, but not traditional fantasy.

This is my take. If you don't like it that's perfectly fine. I, like all artists, design with particular design and form language as my signature. You might have noticed Zyra, Syndra and Elise were designed by the same artist. Sexy bodies, integrated clothing/biology, dark females. Same with artist for Nautilus, Ziggs and Lulu. Friendly shapes, opposing colors, offbeat characters. Just like game designers have similar flavor to their champions across the board artists have similar common expressions.

If you want a traditional archer, with a traditional fantasy get-up, with a traditional build, and a traditional design where female form expression trumps practically fighting the fight, I am not your guy, and I'm glad to admit that. That's my strength, that why I work on what I work on.

I do not abide by the established or the expected, neither does Riot on the whole. It is not our job to abide, it's our job to challenge the convention and question traditional execution.

Thanks for the feedback. Thanks for understanding where we're coming from. This isn't just me. This is part of something larger. Pendulums will swing, you'll get your stripped down heroes. Quinn is not one of them and we're proud of that.
Iron, this is exactly why I look up to you being an artist myself.


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SaltyKracka

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Colors are off because it's technically on an overlay layer in the Photoshop file. It blew out the color but allowed it to show some of the paper grain and saturation. Her colors are more muted on the model.
How exactly do you go about muting so much white and gold?

...

Yes, I'm aware I'm sniping. I just feel that my post deserved an actual answer.


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The Jenso

Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Yep. She's a ranger first. Not a woman first.

Place woman in traditional male creative space and there you go.
For anyone who watches Game of Thrones, Brene (First Renley's Knight, now Lady Cat's Knight) Is a Knight First, woman second, as many shall see in season 3 when it hits. =D.


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Sheogorath

Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Some quick context:

Quinn used to be a guy, then I turned her into a woman. That woman is a ranger, she's prepared for a fight, she's wearing thicker armor but not plate aside from key places where she would have to interact with an enemy's face.

Quinn was not designed to be in a skin-tight outfit. That was tried, and look, again, like a woman with a cape, in a skin tight outfit, which had been worked to death by Zyra, Syndra, Elise, and Diana. She does not care about looking feminine, she cares about utility. Baggy fatigues which have hardened pockets, knee pads to dig into the ground to take a shot, no exposed flesh to take a graze.

A functional Demacian helmet which adds sleekness is a design choice. It's Valkyrie, it's a motif, and it's a visual landmark. She has a gauntlet reminiscent of a falconer's glove which is armored because Valor has armor on his talons, to again, interact with an enemy's face. He can do damage to even thick leather.

Her hood is collapsed, she has essentially a themed parka with a bird motif, Functional but themed.

She has what equates to kevlar, thickened material able to resist a blade. She has Demacian signifiers all over her, and bird motifs worked in. She is functional but fantasy.

Regarding femininity, I was called out long ago when Sejuani released for making the reasoning that Sejuani might wear less clothing so that "you can tell she's female." That is an invalid argument and a sad excuse to design a particular way. A ranger, an elite, doesn't care whether you can tell they are a female or a male. They are interested in getting the job done, and having the gear to do so. We gave Quinn that gear and did not embrace the traditional route of the tight-clothed standard fantasy ranger. She's a new ranger for a new time. She hits the Demacian notes but plays off of them. That is the rational behind similar armor themes to Garen and Jarvan. That's how we establish she's in the military proper, but not standard in uniform.

For reference, take a look ad Deunan Knute from Appleseed. She has no boob or breastplates. She is completely covered with a half-helm. She has short hair. She is a bit more masculine, that's the goal. She is not a waif, but she is agile. She has small breasts, a tighter frame, but is fairly androgynous. That's what we wanted to portray, and I feel we hit that.

Honestly, I feel I owe no excuses. You know my history, you know my goals. I design the women in armor. I do not design the over-sexualized, the seductress, or the siren. Different artists gravitate towards different styles and themes. When this champion came along, I opted to work on it because I felt I could bring a different take. Initially, she did start out as a traditional fantasy ranger, and actually was melee at the time. However, that was not the route we wanted to take. That was standard, it was conventional, and it was boring. I drove away from it and made something rugged in the new direction we're trying to take our style. Fantasy, but not traditional fantasy.

This is my take. If you don't like it that's perfectly fine. I, like all artists, design with particular design and form language as my signature. You might have noticed Zyra, Syndra and Elise were designed by the same artist. Sexy bodies, integrated clothing/biology, dark females. Same with artist for Nautilus, Ziggs and Lulu. Friendly shapes, opposing colors, offbeat characters. Just like game designers have similar flavor to their champions across the board artists have similar common expressions.

If you want a traditional archer, with a traditional fantasy get-up, with a traditional build, and a traditional design where female form expression trumps practically fighting the fight, I am not your guy, and I'm glad to admit that. That's my strength, that why I work on what I work on.

I do not abide by the established or the expected, neither does Riot on the whole. It is not our job to abide, it's our job to challenge the convention and question traditional execution.

Thanks for the feedback. Thanks for understanding where we're coming from. This isn't just me. This is part of something larger. Pendulums will swing, you'll get your stripped down heroes. Quinn is not one of them and we're proud of that.
I effin LOVE Quinn's design. The only nitpick I have are the wings on her weapon, as they seem extremely pointless and they don't really add anything to the aesthetics. Apart from that it's an amazing design, gj!


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Jujubee

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Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Dancer thing aside..

Challenge already accepted. What do you think I'm doing on relaunches? Sivir's not exactly gaining any clothing at this point.
I rest my case. Now I'm stoked for Sivir's remodel. I'll shut up and go to my corner now. Thanks mister. <3 (please consider the dancer champ, I think that would be AMAZING gameplay wise and aesthetic wise.)