Anyone else a bit dissapointed with Quinn's design?

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YSRS

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Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I'll tell you what a League of Legends falcon ranger looks like.

It looks like Quinn.
THIS! Man, I feel as impressed with Iron Stylus now as when he first started the process on making Leona. When he was a parrot icon who wrote stories about you-know-who and discussed how to change the playing field of female design in games.

*Salute*

Can't wait to see what Quinn looks like in game! My thanks to you and your Team who worked on her and Valor.


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turkeyBACON

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melancholy Exile View Post
I'd actually say my own perspective falls a little near this. While I certainly have more than a few issues with the actual design of Quinn's armour and equipment, I'd say the crux of my complaint is that she looks absolutely nothing like I had expected her to. My interest in Quinn has really waned dramatically from the first two pages of her preview (Which actually inspired me to make a thread thanking IronStylus for his efforts) to the point where I honestly can't look at her without seeing a wealth of missed opportunities.

Quinn really just isn't the champion I had hoped she would be.

I can sympathize with that point of view; It's pretty much exactly how I felt about Elise's reveal.


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Dinarzad

Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Some quick context:

Quinn used to be a guy, then I turned her into a woman. That woman is a ranger, she's prepared for a fight, she's wearing thicker armor but not plate aside from key places where she would have to interact with an enemy's face.

Quinn was not designed to be in a skin-tight outfit. That was tried, and look, again, like a woman with a cape, in a skin tight outfit, which had been worked to death by Zyra, Syndra, Elise, and Diana. She does not care about looking feminine, she cares about utility. Baggy fatigues which have hardened pockets, knee pads to dig into the ground to take a shot, no exposed flesh to take a graze.

A functional Demacian helmet which adds sleekness is a design choice. It's Valkyrie, it's a motif, and it's a visual landmark. She has a gauntlet reminiscent of a falconer's glove which is armored because Valor has armor on his talons, to again, interact with an enemy's face. He can do damage to even thick leather.

Her hood is collapsed, she has essentially a themed parka with a bird motif, Functional but themed.

She has what equates to kevlar, thickened material able to resist a blade. She has Demacian signifiers all over her, and bird motifs worked in. She is functional but fantasy.

Regarding femininity, I was called out long ago when Sejuani released for making the reasoning that Sejuani might wear less clothing so that "you can tell she's female." That is an invalid argument and a sad excuse to design a particular way. A ranger, an elite, doesn't care whether you can tell they are a female or a male. They are interested in getting the job done, and having the gear to do so. We gave Quinn that gear and did not embrace the traditional route of the tight-clothed standard fantasy ranger. She's a new ranger for a new time. She hits the Demacian notes but plays off of them. That is the rational behind similar armor themes to Garen and Jarvan. That's how we establish she's in the military proper, but not standard in uniform.

For reference, take a look ad Deunan Knute from Appleseed. She has no boob or breastplates. She is completely covered with a half-helm. She has short hair. She is a bit more masculine, that's the goal. She is not a waif, but she is agile. She has small breasts, a tighter frame, but is fairly androgynous. That's what we wanted to portray, and I feel we hit that.

Honestly, I feel I owe no excuses. You know my history, you know my goals. I design the women in armor. I do not design the over-sexualized, the seductress, or the siren. Different artists gravitate towards different styles and themes. When this champion came along, I opted to work on it because I felt I could bring a different take. Initially, she did start out as a traditional fantasy ranger, and actually was melee at the time. However, that was not the route we wanted to take. That was standard, it was conventional, and it was boring. I drove away from it and made something rugged in the new direction we're trying to take our style. Fantasy, but not traditional fantasy.

This is my take. If you don't like it that's perfectly fine. I, like all artists, design with particular design and form language as my signature. You might have noticed Zyra, Syndra and Elise were designed by the same artist. Sexy bodies, integrated clothing/biology, dark females. Same with artist for Nautilus, Ziggs and Lulu. Friendly shapes, opposing colors, offbeat characters. Just like game designers have similar flavor to their champions across the board artists have similar common expressions.

If you want a traditional archer, with a traditional fantasy get-up, with a traditional build, and a traditional design where female form expression trumps practically fighting the fight, I am not your guy, and I'm glad to admit that. That's my strength, that why I work on what I work on.

I do not abide by the established or the expected, neither does Riot on the whole. It is not our job to abide, it's our job to challenge the convention and question traditional execution.

Thanks for the feedback. Thanks for understanding where we're coming from. This isn't just me. This is part of something larger. Pendulums will swing, you'll get your stripped down heroes. Quinn is not one of them and we're proud of that.

Professor Parrot.
I think you have a new friend/fan in the form of my sister, after I showed her Quinn's art design thus far.

"Sir

I do not play LoL, but have recently read what you have to say on your latest design, and seen the images accompanying.

Please let me express that I am most grateful for your input to the world of concept art. Please continue to do so, for great justice and fantastic, diverse character designs everywhere.

I think I love you."

Ya dun good, Parrot. Ya dun reaaaaaal good.


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DatsaBootyHole

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanikkers View Post
Could be possible that he realized, like everyone else, that the lack of non-overly-sexualized champions in League was somewhat offensive and limiting.

As for the "why he was happy about the confusion" question, I really wouldn't look that deeply into it...or be offended by it. Everything about this seems genuine. I'd rather not spit in the face of a person who's legitimately attempting to answer for the demands of the community, particularly on such a hot issue as this.
It's coming off harsher than intended and I'm contradicting myself all over the place. I don't mean disrespect.
But as someone who has been the butt of every gender, gay, trans* joke, I just get a bit suspicious of a developer getting so excited over people wrongly identifying a character's gender when they are so heavily clad in armor-- not that we need some sort of anatomy to distinguish her.

I mean, why change Quinn from male to female? Why not keep Quinn male and make the next champion an androgynous female from the get-go? Honestly, if he had never said that in the first place I wouldn't even be posting in this thread.

I'm going to stop reading into it. I'll definitely be buying her though when she's released.

That's all.


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Dybia

Junior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by turkeyBACON View Post
I can sympathize with that point of view; It's pretty much exactly how I felt about Elise's reveal.
So what bundles of missed opportunities have been thrown out with the reveal of Quinn's design? How does her armor kill the little plot thread with her brother Caleb? How does her big metal falconer's glove spoil her weaseling out assassins with Valor's help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsaBootyHole View Post
I mean, why change Quinn from male to female? Why not keep Quinn male and make the next champion an androgynous female from the get-go? Honestly, if he had never said that in the first place I wouldn't even be posting in this thread.
Eh, let's turn that around and ask why not make her female? It isn't like there was some big reason for Quinn to be male, and they didn't make her female just so she can bone Jarvan or whatever.


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SteelerKing

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Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quinn ain't unique cause he has attributes that other champs have already herp derp.
Same weapon as vayne, somethin with a bird. This be swain and vayne only combined!

HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR


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Kasiski

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Senior Member

02-13-2013

Upon seeing her art, my friend and I immediately both said "I am buying her."

The art is awesome, the concept is awesome. I have no complaints.


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Kanikkers

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsaBootyHole View Post
It's coming off harsher than intended and I'm contradicting myself all over the place. I don't mean disrespect.
But as someone who has been the butt of every gender, gay, trans* joke, I just get a bit suspicious of a developer getting so excited over people wrongly identifying a character's gender when they are so heavily clad in armor-- not that we need some sort of anatomy to distinguish her.

I mean, why change Quinn from male to female? Why not keep Quinn male and make the next champion an androgynous female from the get-go? Honestly, if he had never said that in the first place I wouldn't even be posting in this thread.

I'm going to stop reading into it. I'll definitely be buying her though when she's released.

That's all.
No harshness taken, sorry if there was any of it in my reply.

I guess my only answer would be that, and this is making an assumption, Quinn's gender was changed at the concept? It wasn't as if they modeled the champ, designed the look and everything, and then said, "Wait, we need an empowered female, let's just switch his gender." I assumed that they came up with the ranger-with-bird concept as a male and the devs decided to make it a female instead.

This would need confirmation, though. Lots of assumptions.


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Sarif Fice

Senior Member

02-13-2013

I wonder how long and how hard we will have to fight to get a girly male... And i mean a real girly male not an average young man (ezreal). I'd love to see a really androgynous male champion!

like http://fairy.in-pics.com/thumbs/spar...male-fairy.jpg.


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Chilly5

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzkat View Post
You're completely wrong. She's nothing like anyone you listed.

Here's an image of Quinn, Swain, Vayne and Ashe: http://i.imgur.com/PkHQ4Ay.jpg

Swain: Nothing about his clothing or physical appearance are similar to Quinn. Aside from birds, which he has an army of, and look nothing like Val. Very superficial similarity.
Vayne: Has a full cape, Quinn doesnt. Skin tight suit, high heels, and very little protective gear. Long flowing hair, goggles. Superficial similarity in crossbow. However every ADC that uses weaponry, either uses a gun or some kind of bow with the exception of Draven.
Ashe: Where do I start? She's wearing a skirt and open tunic. No protective gear. Full cape and hood. Her bow is made of ice.

Now we come to Leona vs Quinn: http://i.imgur.com/4tkmR8i.jpg

First of all, Iron Solari Leona is a SKIN, and skins are not CANNON. They are not intended to flesh out a character in any way. In the image you can see Leona default has nothing in common. She has metal armor, boob plates, giant shield, giant sword, entirely gold, with some draped fabric.

The ways that Iron Solari are similar are more or less practicality. Quinn has a half helmet for ONE reason: So you can see her hair. It is literally one of the only clues that she is female. The second similarity is the triangle tipped fabric. Talon has similar flaps. They're inspired by real armor, which helped the wearer move more freely whilst still having protection. The similarity is small, and consistent with how armor is "made" throughout Valoran.

As for tropes, like I said before, every ADC with weaponry either uses a gun or a bow. How they're different is in so many details apart from their weapon choice. One huge one being GAMEPLAY. We don't know how Quinn plays, I suspect once we see it all of these 'similarities' will be trivial at best.
Nice images, I wish I knew how to do that.

Insofar as Quinn's relation to:
Swain - They both have a bird companion
Vayne - They both have a one-handed crossbow
Ashe - They both have a "ranger" theme (Ashe also has a bird ability)

These are my arguments for why Quinn is similar to these characters. I did not mean that they looked alike.

Quinn does however, look very alike to Leona. Specifically Iron Solari Leona. Skins are not cannon, does not mean that skins are not a product of Riot's design team.
As such...in making new designs, previous designs should be taken into consideration.

I suspect that Quinn will look different in gameplay though. But from what Ive seen and read, this is what I say.