Anyone else a bit dissapointed with Quinn's design?

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

jambreeder

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon Bright View Post
See, this. This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. You're so offended by the idea of femininity and just the very concept of being female you're completely incapable of not separating the concepts in your head. It's like there's no part of you whatsoever that can reconcile with the idea of a feminine woman still managing to be strong, badass, etc.

I can't wrap my head around this because every non-female related post you make comes off as extremely thoughtful, intelligent, and so on, and yet you somehow have this idea that comes out in every single champion you make
You're 100% right.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

GoGoCho

Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Some quick context:

Quinn used to be a guy, then I turned her into a woman.
Your powers seem to grow every day, Birdman. I fear what you will become. O.O


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mynt

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellioning View Post
Time for a controversial opinion! No, she's REALLY not. Leona is a pretty lady who helps OTHER PEOPLE do that. It's not even that she's traditionally played as a support; it's that her passive is useless to her. She helps her team kick ass, and doesn't do much for herself. Apart from her w stealing the occasional kill or five. And that's fine. It's just not what most people would expect when they hear that; I'd say 'pretty lady who kicks ass' qualifies Fiora more.
Leona's passive is useful to her.

It allows her to deal DPS while building only tank items. Each charge of sunlight deals 50% of an average abilities damage. That's insane! You might as well say Leona has a 50% damage steroid on her spells.

It also helps her allies to get gold. It helps both Leona, and her allies. Both. Not just one.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RedFuryBounce

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGoCho View Post
Your powers seem to grow every day, Birdman. I fear what you will become. O.O
>Gender swapping champion confirmed.

Obvious sarcasm.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Spaghadeity

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mynt View Post
Leona's passive is useful to her.

It allows her to deal DPS while building only tank items. Each charge of sunlight deals 50% of an average abilities damage. That's insane! You might as well say Leona has a 50% damage steroid on her spells.

It also helps her allies to get gold. It helps both Leona, and her allies. Both. Not just one.
Leona can't trigger it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SplendidSorrow

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly5 View Post
I read the entries.
I am referring directly to the comment Ironstylus made.

I'll clarify in my post.

But I stand by the fact that I don't think Quinn appears to have a defined character trope.
Because you didn't bother to look at the art in context of the character?

The only way you get Leona and Quinn into the same trope is to rely solely on visual queues. If we rely solely on visual queues...Garen, Darius, J4 all are the strong male armored types. Miss Fortune and Ahri could easily be tossed into the seductress trope, and so on and so forth. If you don't bother looking at things you can lump tons of characters together...afterall we have how many ninja's now?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Circuit Bear

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Can we please.. stop bashing on everything for the love of god this is getting stupid.

A) She appeals to a different type. Just because you don't like her, suck it up. Zyra, Ahri, and Fiora didn't appeal to me. I don't care for the pornstar body, many of last years characters had this body type, with the exception of Vi, and diana, both of which had skins that flaunted these body types with small differences, so even though they were closer to what I found attractive, the people who got that body type, got it literally every female character, besides Lulu.

B) Just because she isn't masculine, or feminine enough to you doesn't mean she's flawed. I find myself looking forward to IronStylus's characters since they usually are the closest to what I enjoy about a character.

C) This is a style. It might not have a completely different figure, but the way it portrays and carries itself, the facial expression, hair style, and figure itself, all point to another preference that might not fit "your" preferences. Beating down on Ironstylus because his character isn't your ideal character isn't appropriate since it is for other people. Quinn is very much the type of character I would like to see, Vi was close, Quinn, based on this art, is exactly what I wanted.

D) Stop crying about how practical her outfit it. Does anyone realize how stupid this arguement is? Riven runs around in cloth armor with a giant broken sword. Lee sin has no shirt or armor at all. You have a runt on a plane hovering 2 feet off the ground using standard airplane engines. And you are going to start nit picking about the type of helm she is wearing... now? Honestly?

E) She will probably have a skin that makes her look more feminine like Diana and Vi, so quit whining, honestly.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Rauron

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly5 View Post
"If you don't like it that's perfectly fine."

This line...is very unprofessional. It's saying, "back off, I have my own style."

The problem with Quinn's design however, is that it is not iconic. This has nothing to do with liking your style or not, its just lackluster designing.

Each champion in League of Legends should convey a full character trope. Darius for instance, great character design (gameplay design is debated), he's clearly your bad-ass no-nonsense-dunkmaster type of guy. He fully conveys this, and there is VERY little overlap between his trope and that of another champion. Lulu is your cute/small mischievous witch-type-with-fairy. When you think of an archetype, you should have no confusion directly linking a character to it.

I believe is was said somewhere before that Syndra or Zyra are examples of characters that could have been done better. This is because...despite the fact that they are "a certain trope," they do not fully work themselves into that trope, and there is a lot of overlap and not a lot of "definition" of their character vs that of similar characters.
The "badass dark/voluptuous/mature/powerful female" trope has already been explored by the likes of Morgana, Zyra, Elise, Syndra, Katarina, Cassiopeia, Diana, Shyvanna, and Leblanc. Sure each of these characters has their "thing" (moon-girl, dragon-girl, plant-girl, spider girl, etc), but when it comes to defining character traits, they are literally all the same character. None of them are memorable/likeable, and I would argue that as a result there is less fandom from the community over their CHARACTERS (not necessarily the champion, but the CHARACTER of the champion).

When I see Quinn, I dont necessarily relate her to Vayne, even though both have a cross-bow type thing.
This is because Vayne is very clearly defined to be this "vampire-hunter/Van Helsing" type. I see her as this dark vigilante kind of character, and she clearly conveys the trope. Her crossbow does not carry her trope, her overall character does.
I dont even relate her to Swain, because Swain too, is very defined. He's your crooked strategist, a win-by-any means cripple. The bird is there, and it adds to his character, but it doesnt carry his trope, his character does.
The character that I most associate with Quinn...is Leona.
This is because all that I've read of your characterization of Quinn...is Leona. Quinn IS Iron Solari Leona with a crossbow and a bird.
All this talk about wearing armor that "gets the job done," not interested in showing off femininity, all of this stuff is Leona.
Sure you can point out Leona's armor is more "form fitting," Leona has long hair, she has high-heels even, but none of those details detract away from Leona's overall character trope: serious-armored woman. Leona's full body armor is character-defining.
To make a character that is -I mean I can just literally replace all references to Quinn with "Leona" and it would make about as much sense- it's just poor design choices in my opinion.

Why do I care? As a fan of the game I understand that the League champion pool cannot be infinite. Eventually production of champions will end. That's why it's very valuable to me as a fan to enjoy champions that are each iconic and unique, each exploring a specific trope. And it's not like we're out of tropes or anything! I can't expect myself to find every character top of the line trope-defined such that I am appeased, but there should definitely be more attention to this matter.
The way I see it so far, Quinn looks like a cookie-cutter copy of Leona's character, with some new duds. Similar to how Syndra is a cookie-cutter copy of any of those other "voluptuous"-power-females that I referenced earlier.

So don't say "if you don't like it that's perfectly fine."
It should very much concern you if there is talk from the community of not liking it. At the end of the day I think Quinn will turn out great, and will be a fun character, I have few doubts to this. But, by creating her, it's stepping on the character definition of Leona, and diluting what made Leona special. With future champions I feel like there should be an effort to avoid this than saying "that's perfectly fine."

Edit- This is in direct response to IronStylus' comment.
However, even in considering the other preview material, where she's more in the direction of a "forest-batman" character, I feel that she lacks character-defining.
I understand that I have not seen the final product. I'm just commenting off of what was posted.
I disagree with your conclusion. I feel as though Quinn -does- convey the "in-your-face ranger" type, much more similar to a D&D Beastmaster than Ashe's Robin Hood thing. However, I think you presented your point very well. You're articulate, polite, and engaged... but somehow got a downvote. I'll give you an upvote, and I hope that you get more, because discussion like this is the most valuable stuff we can have, from players and from devs.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zinwrath

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Dunno about all this weird gender talk and all.

But the concept art regardless of gender looks boring to me. Not exceptionally unique in appearance. Rather boring. I mean in a world of plant women, undead horsemen, and yordles riding in mechs....just kinda falls off. Not saying the drawings are bad....just the concept is really boring and safe.

Once again, dont care about the whole ***/gender debate, this is purely from an observational point of how interesting the champion appears.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mudflap

Senior Member

02-13-2013

I'll stop being suspicious of Riot's motives when I see another feminine and attractive female character.

Until then I'm pretty sure they've sold out to the PC straw feminist crowd and I'm not going to be spending anymore on RP.

As soon as an entertainment company gets into politics and lets it affect the way they run their business that's when I take my money elsewhere.
This is a video game, not a place to picket, and if Riot continues to cater to that I see no reason to give them my money.

This is excluding the fact that as I've said before, her entire design is boring and vanilla as hell.