Anyone else a bit dissapointed with Quinn's design?

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Ogaflow

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Some quick context:

Quinn used to be a guy, then I turned her into a woman. That woman is a ranger, she's prepared for a fight, she's wearing thicker armor but not plate aside from key places where she would have to interact with an enemy's face.

Quinn was not designed to be in a skin-tight outfit. That was tried, and look, again, like a woman with a cape, in a skin tight outfit, which had been worked to death by Zyra, Syndra, Elise, and Diana. She does not care about looking feminine, she cares about utility. Baggy fatigues which have hardened pockets, knee pads to dig into the ground to take a shot, no exposed flesh to take a graze.

A functional Demacian helmet which adds sleekness is a design choice. It's Valkyrie, it's a motif, and it's a visual landmark. She has a gauntlet reminiscent of a falconer's glove which is armored because Valor has armor on his talons, to again, interact with an enemy's face. He can do damage to even thick leather.

Her hood is collapsed, she has essentially a themed parka with a bird motif, Functional but themed.

She has what equates to kevlar, thickened material able to resist a blade. She has Demacian signifiers all over her, and bird motifs worked in. She is functional but fantasy.

Regarding femininity, I was called out long ago when Sejuani released for making the reasoning that Sejuani might wear less clothing so that "you can tell she's female." That is an invalid argument and a sad excuse to design a particular way. A ranger, an elite, doesn't care whether you can tell they are a female or a male. They are interested in getting the job done, and having the gear to do so. We gave Quinn that gear and did not embrace the traditional route of the tight-clothed standard fantasy ranger. She's a new ranger for a new time. She hits the Demacian notes but plays off of them. That is the rational behind similar armor themes to Garen and Jarvan. That's how we establish she's in the military proper, but not standard in uniform.

For reference, take a look ad Deunan Knute from Appleseed. She has no boob or breastplates. She is completely covered with a half-helm. She has short hair. She is a bit more masculine, that's the goal. She is not a waif, but she is agile. She has small breasts, a tighter frame, but is fairly androgynous. That's what we wanted to portray, and I feel we hit that.

Honestly, I feel I owe no excuses. You know my history, you know my goals. I design the women in armor. I do not design the over-sexualized, the seductress, or the siren. Different artists gravitate towards different styles and themes. When this champion came along, I opted to work on it because I felt I could bring a different take. Initially, she did start out as a traditional fantasy ranger, and actually was melee at the time. However, that was not the route we wanted to take. That was standard, it was conventional, and it was boring. I drove away from it and made something rugged in the new direction we're trying to take our style. Fantasy, but not traditional fantasy.

This is my take. If you don't like it that's perfectly fine. I, like all artists, design with particular design and form language as my signature. You might have noticed Zyra, Syndra and Elise were designed by the same artist. Sexy bodies, integrated clothing/biology, dark females. Same with artist for Nautilus, Ziggs and Lulu. Friendly shapes, opposing colors, offbeat characters. Just like game designers have similar flavor to their champions across the board artists have similar common expressions.

If you want a traditional archer, with a traditional fantasy get-up, with a traditional build, and a traditional design where female form expression trumps practically fighting the fight, I am not your guy, and I'm glad to admit that. That's my strength, that why I work on what I work on.

I do not abide by the established or the expected, neither does Riot on the whole. It is not our job to abide, it's our job to challenge the convention and question traditional execution.

Thanks for the feedback. Thanks for understanding where we're coming from. This isn't just me. This is part of something larger. Pendulums will swing, you'll get your stripped down heroes. Quinn is not one of them and we're proud of that.
I am a fan of your work on Quinn, IronStylus. I hope that when Sejuani's art rework comes it is you at the helm so we see a real arctic barbarian in armor and not some woman in a leather bikini.


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SlumlordThanatos

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Some quick context:

Quinn used to be a guy, then I turned her into a woman. That woman is a ranger, she's prepared for a fight, she's wearing thicker armor but not plate aside from key places where she would have to interact with an enemy's face.

Quinn was not designed to be in a skin-tight outfit. That was tried, and look, again, like a woman with a cape, in a skin tight outfit, which had been worked to death by Zyra, Syndra, Elise, and Diana. She does not care about looking feminine, she cares about utility. Baggy fatigues which have hardened pockets, knee pads to dig into the ground to take a shot, no exposed flesh to take a graze.

A functional Demacian helmet which adds sleekness is a design choice. It's Valkyrie, it's a motif, and it's a visual landmark. She has a gauntlet reminiscent of a falconer's glove which is armored because Valor has armor on his talons, to again, interact with an enemy's face. He can do damage to even thick leather.

Her hood is collapsed, she has essentially a themed parka with a bird motif, Functional but themed.

She has what equates to kevlar, thickened material able to resist a blade. She has Demacian signifiers all over her, and bird motifs worked in. She is functional but fantasy.

Regarding femininity, I was called out long ago when Sejuani released for making the reasoning that Sejuani might wear less clothing so that "you can tell she's female." That is an invalid argument and a sad excuse to design a particular way. A ranger, an elite, doesn't care whether you can tell they are a female or a male. They are interested in getting the job done, and having the gear to do so. We gave Quinn that gear and did not embrace the traditional route of the tight-clothed standard fantasy ranger. She's a new ranger for a new time. She hits the Demacian notes but plays off of them. That is the rational behind similar armor themes to Garen and Jarvan. That's how we establish she's in the military proper, but not standard in uniform.

For reference, take a look ad Deunan Knute from Appleseed. She has no boob or breastplates. She is completely covered with a half-helm. She has short hair. She is a bit more masculine, that's the goal. She is not a waif, but she is agile. She has small breasts, a tighter frame, but is fairly androgynous. That's what we wanted to portray, and I feel we hit that.

Honestly, I feel I owe no excuses. You know my history, you know my goals. I design the women in armor. I do not design the over-sexualized, the seductress, or the siren. Different artists gravitate towards different styles and themes. When this champion came along, I opted to work on it because I felt I could bring a different take. Initially, she did start out as a traditional fantasy ranger, and actually was melee at the time. However, that was not the route we wanted to take. That was standard, it was conventional, and it was boring. I drove away from it and made something rugged in the new direction we're trying to take our style. Fantasy, but not traditional fantasy.

This is my take. If you don't like it that's perfectly fine. I, like all artists, design with particular design and form language as my signature. You might have noticed Zyra, Syndra and Elise were designed by the same artist. Sexy bodies, integrated clothing/biology, dark females. Same with artist for Nautilus, Ziggs and Lulu. Friendly shapes, opposing colors, offbeat characters. Just like game designers have similar flavor to their champions across the board artists have similar common expressions.

If you want a traditional archer, with a traditional fantasy get-up, with a traditional build, and a traditional design where female form expression trumps practically fighting the fight, I am not your guy, and I'm glad to admit that. That's my strength, that why I work on what I work on.

I do not abide by the established or the expected, neither does Riot on the whole. It is not our job to abide, it's our job to challenge the convention and question traditional execution.

Thanks for the feedback. Thanks for understanding where we're coming from. This isn't just me. This is part of something larger. Pendulums will swing, you'll get your stripped down heroes. Quinn is not one of them and we're proud of that.
Eh. I'm a fan of your work, but I'd be lying if I said I liked everything you worked on. *COUGHsteellegionluxCOUGH* However, I feel you are misunderstanding some of us.

I pointed out earlier that I feel Quinn resembles a slightly more slender Jarvan IV. I don't care that she's wearing armor, nor do I care that she has short hair. In fact, I rather like her design. I just feel that her facial features don't distinctly set her apart as female.

But...this may just be me. I like being able to distinguish my female characters from their male counterparts with a glance. Not necessarily by their physique (quite the opposite, since Leona, Shyvana and Kayle are among my favorite champions. I like me some armor), but by other things, like facial features and hair.

Bleh. This makes me feel terrible...I don't like something that is perfectly fine, and I don't have a good reason for it other than personal preference.

I know it's impossible to put out something that pleases everyone. This is just the first champion release (for me) where I just don't like a character's design for no good reason. >.<


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Xyrne

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Not my kind of character. I had to actually inspect the image to figure out it was a woman. Not really a problem, I'm fine with androgyny. But what I really don't like is the armor and crossbow designs. They look so fake and ridiculously gaudy. Like something you would see in one of the Power Rangers series.

I'm just not feeling her at all.


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Adumu

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogaflow View Post
I am a fan of your work on Quinn, IronStylus. I hope that when Sejuani's art rework comes it is you at the helm so we see a real arctic barbarian in armor and not some woman in a leather bikini.
... Don't mess with Sejuani. Seriously. I rarely play her, but her design is awesome. Ever think that the denizens of Freljord wear light clothing because, I dunno, their bodies grew used to the climate? Or maybe they're showing their superiority over the cold by resisting it's effects. Or, maybe, the innate power over ice (Ashe/Sejuani) gives them heavy resistance to cold? Or that Tryndamere is just too manly to wear a shirt, and his rage keeps him warm?

... yeah, long story short, feel free to tweak her skills and improve her model if you must, but leave the base alone. She's fine >_>


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chumbler

Senior Member

02-13-2013

^^^^ If you have to grasp for bull**** explanations to do something, you should probably just not do that thing. Sejuani needs a redesign (gameplay and visuals, both). Ashe needs it, too. Her minidress is just a holdover from before people actually thought about these kinds of things.

I think the design is a little too busy, but that's really the only problem I have with her. It's definitely not going to turn me away from picking her up or calling her a fantastic step forward for Riot.

It turns out it's not that hard to make cool female characters who don't rely on *** to sell themselves.


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YouHearThat

Senior Member

02-13-2013

why is the ranger in armor and why MAKES her strong theres no clear detail that makes her look strong


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Wirius

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Great variety; this is a much needed character that hasn't been in legue. Great job Iron Stylus.


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Avalon Bright

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Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
^^^^ If you have to grasp for bull**** explanations to do something, you should probably just not do that thing. Sejuani needs a redesign (gameplay and visuals, both). Ashe needs it, too. Her minidress is just a holdover from before people actually thought about these kinds of things.

I think the design is a little too busy, but that's really the only problem I have with her. It's definitely not going to turn me away from picking her up or calling her a fantastic step forward for Riot.

It turns out it's not that hard to make cool female characters who don't rely on *** to sell themselves.
It's not a bull**** explanation it's COMMON GODDAMN SENSE. If you ****ing mouthbreathing idiots learned anything in school anymore you'd know that people react differently to weather based on the goddamn climate they grew up in. Jesus ****ing christ I'm so sick of dealing with so much stupid tonight...


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Adumu

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
^^^^ If you have to reach for bull**** explanations to do something, you should probably just not do that thing. Sejuani needs a redesign (gameplay and visuals, both).

I think the design is a little too busy, but that's really the only problem I have with her. It's definitely not going to turn me away from picking her up or calling her a fantastic step forward for Riot.

It turns out it's not that hard to make cool female characters who don't rely on *** to sell themselves.
Problem is, "that thing" is already done. If Riot had stated that denizens of Freljord were resistant to cold, you would accept it because it's canon and their universe. Not to mention the fact that there are stranger things.

Just because -I- brought it up, it's bull****. Sejuani's gameplay may need some tweaks, but her visuals are fine. Unless you want to garb Tryndamere and Ashe in furs and leather's from head to toe, which would probably kill their characters. I mean, Tryndamere with a shirt? Does not compute.


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chumbler

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon Bright View Post
It's not a bull**** explanation it's COMMON GODDAMN SENSE. If you ****ing mouthbreathing idiots learned anything in school anymore you'd know that people react differently to weather based on the goddamn climate they grew up in. Jesus ****ing christ I'm so sick of dealing with so much stupid tonight...
I don't think you're in the position to call other people mouthbreathing idiots when you apparently don't realize that people who actually live in arctic climates don't run around wearing bikinis all day. They actually, you know, make the sensible decision to wear heavy clothes that keep them alive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adumu View Post
Problem is, "that thing" is already done. If Riot had stated that denizens of Freljord were resistant to cold, you would accept it because it's canon and their universe. Not to mention the fact that there are stranger things.

Just because -I- brought it up, it's bull****. Sejuani's gameplay may need some tweaks, but her visuals are fine. Unless you want to garb Tryndamere and Ashe in furs and leather's from head to toe, which would probably kill their characters. I mean, Tryndamere with a shirt? Does not compute.
Ashe's minidress has literally nothing to do with her character, hope this helps. And Sejuani's visuals are not fine for a long list of reasons (and they wouldn't be fine in a desert environment, either).