For anyone who thinks Riot is bad, you haven't seen anything.

First Riot Post
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Overlord Hades

Senior Member

02-12-2013

BTW morello i forget who mentioned it to me but one rioter told me certianT is currently working on a darius rework, would you be able to ask him if hed out some of his ideas ? i avidly play darius and look forward to any kind or rework he would get if it incorporated more teamwork without destroying him as a champ, I would just like to know in what kind of direction hes heading and maybe see whats being thrown around for him


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Prince Kassad

Senior Member

02-12-2013

No one is calling you lazy. I think it is perfectly logical to say that it is a question of priorities.

I can make two assumptions:

1) There exists a champion that is in line for a rework right now (whether visual or gameplay changes) that hasn't been started yet. (let's say... either Taric, Veigar, or Mordekaiser. One of them I bet is a champion that you want worked on eventually but isn't currently being worked on. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

2) There exists a designer/artist who is working on making a new champion right now (whether visual or gameplay elements).

A logical conclusion: Why not just tell that designer/artist, "Hey let's put your champion on ice for a couple months and get Taric looking snazzy! Or make Veigar's gameplay less binary! Or Make Mordekaiser's playstyle and visuals match up better!" I dunno...something like that doesn't seem unreasonable to ask for.


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Cricket demon

Member

02-12-2013

@morello So you're alright with champions like annie jayce and blitz crank getting skins soon. But trundle hasnt had a single balance update to fix his bugs gotten any new skins when all the work was done for you with rock troll trundle, you just forgot about him just like urgot udyr leblanc and more you just say "well lets make a pretty overpowered rainbow champion so they will forget" Trundle had potential you just said "lets not fix our mistakes" give him love


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Hepatitis Y

Junior Member

02-12-2013

I love the style of debonair Jayce (my favorite champ) will their be anymore skins coming out that have class like debonair Jayce or Gentleman Cho' Gath? Because i will throw my money at the screen, but that's just me. I do not know about the rest of the community's opinion on skins like those, but i'm curious as to if we'll be seeing skins like those. (i also am a fan of the Dragon master swain and Reddit brought me to this thread or the confirmation of it, I don't believe riot is bad at all. Look at companies like Infinity Ward who come out with a game and wait forever to patch it and never touch it again).


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GnarGnarBrah

Member

02-12-2013

Hey Morello, as much as i hate S3 and all the changes i just wanted to tell everybody at Riot that they are doing a good job and to keep up the good work!


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Kelberry

Senior Member

02-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
The issue that is hard to communicate about limited resources is that it has almost nothing to do with designers and such - in this case, it's mostly testing resources.

Testing = work for designers. Each test is a possible iteration and additional confirmation/denial of an idea. Ideas aren't special, or even hard (if they were the work, lots and lots of people could be designers!) it's the details and results of those ideas that matter.

Because we already do as much playtesting in a day as we can and still actually get the scripting/etc done, there's no more room to move much faster on rework development. And, I know you disagree, but it's less problematic to have a champion be sub-par (commonly exaggerated to "trash tier") at the highest elos than it is to invalidate the other options by getting it to be good. In a world where Irelia is top-tier (and you've seen this), it takes a ton of other options off the table. That character being in the best picks, in its current state, causes more imbalance in the game as a result.

The above is the missing link in the discussion. Balance isn't "is X strong" - that's not the full picture or even the most important piece. It's "what options are realistically available and where do they fit"? Heimerdinger used as a niche pick in a tournament says even he has a place in the League.

And niche picks are desirable. Without it, you can't have incomparables to balance something other than raw effectiveness in all situations.

So, if there is a limited on how much can be done at once (yes), and a larger number of things we want to do than that limit (yes), it means we need to prioritize somethings over others. We could do the heavy lifting on Irelia, but that means at the expense of Karma, Sejuani, Heimerdinger, and other characters who have a greater need.

I don't often play this card, but this time I think I need to - it's impossible to share the complexity of game development and the actual workflow effectively without having experienced it. Many players (and this is fair - it's not your job! ) oversimplify problems and then say some really clueless stuff like "don't be lazy - just do it." I stay my hand a LOT at that statement because it's about the most offensive and simultaneously asinine thing you can say to a developer.

Critiquing the results is fine - welcome even - but when I share the realities, it's an attempt to clue you in on what the priorities will be on tough decisions. And even if this post shares some insight, it'll be lost on millions of people who didn't read it and are just like "fk riot" when our priorities don't match their own personal ones. Once in awhile, just sometimes, it gets frustrating since I'm a human being just like everyone else
Some of the things are very easy to fix, most of the bugs with the client are most likely 1 line changes (if they aren't then there is a serious problem with your programming team who work on the client) and these are ignored. It's not obvious, everyone is aware of them even Rioters yet they go unchecked. Don't try and pull that card that "things are complex", no they really aren't (I'll give some credit to the Mac team as they're probably the ones who are working the hardest) However anything else could be considered quite binary, and if it isn't then there is a problem with the foundation that your game resides on.


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naotasan

Senior Member

02-12-2013

The way Riot approaches Dominion and how they promote it is straight up embarrassing for the entire company.

Kassadin has been broken for over a year. Don't even get me started on Ranked dominion. Or the fact that Riot seems to perfectly dodge discussions about Dominion.


RiotNome needs a lot more people helping him out, even just for two weeks.


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Cricket demon

Member

02-12-2013

@morello So you're alright with champions like annie jayce and blitz crank getting skins soon. But trundle hasnt had a single balance update to fix his bugs gotten any new skins when all the work was done for you with rock troll trundle, you just forgot about him just like urgot udyr leblanc and more you just say "well lets make a pretty overpowered rainbow champion so they will forget" Trundle had potential you just said "lets not fix our mistakes"


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Pryotra

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Senior Member

02-12-2013

@Morello I reeeally hope you guys at least read my post on page 22. I'm not asking for a comment, but people don't write novels unless they get inspired, and then they want people to read it.


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TB Wolf

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Senior Member

02-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamíel View Post
Every single employee at Riot would have to offer their soul to some dark lord to even have a snowballs chance in hell at being 1% of the company Blizzard is. Say what you want about Blizzard cause you might be a bit butthurt from past dealings but they didn't claw their way to the top of the PC gaming world and then proceed to make a throne out of the skulls of competitors without being a truly impressive company. Riot has one mildly impressive game with alot of still glaring issues run on a platform that is a hilarious joke (looking at you adobe air).



Riot is a grand canyon away from Blizzard in terms of being a gaming company.


EDIT: For got to add something

Successful games

Riot: League of legends

Blizzard: Starcraft franchise, Diablo franchise, Warcraft franchise.

Riot has a long way to go before they can try to stand shoulder to shoulder with Blizzard.
So because Blizzard has more good games they're a better company? #1 logic.

I've been a hardcore Blizzard fan since I was 6 years old and first played WCII, and continue to be a hardcore Blizzard fan as I play SCII and eagerly await Heart of the Swarm, and I fully disagree with you. There's not really any comparing the two companies, who are both astoundingly good at what they do.

Blizzard has had a lot of issues, and Riot has had a lot of issues. Blizzard is just a bit of a bigger company, with departments or at least teams for most of their games.