Nayenne, the Survivor [v2]

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Nysta

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Bump!


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Leo Tomita

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Sorry for the enormous amount of delay...the internet on Brazil went down coast to coast...as such...i was really fudged up...but now im back (i hope) and now i can review you...and so many others...

Quote:
Passive - Regeneration - Nayenne regenerates using her suits regeneration system.
She regenerates by 1.4% of her missing health times the % of energy she has each second. This means at 50% Energy she regenerates for 0.7% of her missing health only.
i kinda like this skill...but i notice 2 "problems".
.her health regen is too inconsistent ...based on energy means that during laning phase her windows between POKING/FALLBACKING are a little odd....better example....
think about Garen/ Dr. Mundo....their regeneration stats are consistant/always the same...wich mean they can always count with some BASE on their health regen...Nayenne can't do that...but anyways...
help me with that math please...
Nayenne has 95% health MISSING and Full Energy Bar...her health regen bonus is equal to??? ___________
because if it is too high...kill her would be too tough...
build warmog's until fingers collapse...win the game...or at least your death score will be 0

Quote:
Q - Chain Strike - Nayenne shoots out one of her blades on a chain. When hitting the target location it extends to some sort of anchor and starts pulling all enemies behind it up to a limit of two towards Nayenne over the course of one second. She can still cast other abilities or attack while the blade is on its way. Flashing, pulling a third target, switching weapons or hitting the pulled target with your E drops the pull effect.
Sword Dash - Nayenne dashes forward and aims for her targets feet, turning herself around one time. This does also knock up targets hit for 0.5 seconds. Note that this has a higher area of effect than the pull.
If I had to guess, I'd say the pull has about 125 radius and the dash about 250 radius.
Damage: 60/90/120/150/180 (+0.8 per Bonus Attack Damage) physical damage.
This damage can critically hit and applies on hit effects. Damage dealt to further targets is decreased by 10% up to a maximum of 30%.
Range: 600
Cost: 50%Energy
Cooldown: 20/19/18/17/16 seconds.
i must say...PERFECT skill...at least 99% of it....only the energy cost is buggin me...50% current energy can be much when start a fight....BUT it also means that she will never be energy depleted as all energy champions.....Akali ulting everytime+smokebomb+crescent slash+throwing scythe thing....soon...she has no energy...same happens with Shen/Lee Sin/Kennen.....
BUT
Nayenne can cast this skill with 8 energy!...she will spends 4 energy and cast this skill normally...

OR

50% Total Energy means she will spend 100 energy in this skill only...no needs to say that is unthinkable

add a flat energy cost...this will make things easier i think

Quote:
W - Tech - Nayenne's weapons get enhanced. She can activate this ability to get ready to use other abilities faster.
Passive - Blades: Adds 16/24/32/40/48 as true damage to her attacks by heating the blades.
Passive - Swords: Adds 16/24/32/40/48(+0.15 per Bonus Ad) to her usual total Ad by increasing her swords over-all weight. Does not stack with itself!
Active: Reduces the cooldown of all her other abilities by 2/2.5/3/3.5/4 seconds.
Cost: 40%Energy
Cooldown: 8 seconds.
simple skill but very fitable....
again the percentage thing....dude...i trully didn't get your thought process behind this part of the skills
AND...
imagine yourself getting blue buff at end game...you will also get near 40% CD reduc...wich means this 8 seconds cd will goes to 4.8 seconds..but wait! theres more!...this skill cut 4 seconds of all other skills...what does it means? every 4.8 seconds you will low the cooldown of Q skill to 5,6 seconds...remembering Q skill cost a percentage of energy so you will be able to use it rigth?
E skill goes to amazing 2 seconds...and E skill also consumes percentage of energy...so you will be able to use it...always...holy mobility batman

Quote:
E - Kick - Nayenne prepares for a mighty kick gaining movement speed for a short duration. She can reactivate this ability to kick the closest target or wall and jump away from it.
Upon activation Nayenne accelerates by 25% over 1 second and stays at that speed for the next 2 seconds.
She can then reactivate this ability within those two seconds to execute a kick (skillshot) dealing 10/50/80/110/140(+1.2Ad)physical damage to the first target hit and jump to the opposite direction for 450 units should it have hit anything. Can also hit walls.
Range: 325
The kick applies a debuff called 'dazed' which slows the movement and attack-speed of the target hit by 15/20/25/30/35% for 1.5 seconds.
Can critically hit. Walls are kick proof. They will endure the kick, no worries. If the kick hits anything, she gains 40 Energy.
Cost: 60%Energy
Cooldown: 14/13/12/11/10 seconds.
Love the mechanics...but AD ratio looks to high...since this skill can have 2 seconds cooldown...if my math is correct
again ........% .........energy........ not a really good thing...

NOTE: visually this skill would be enormously fun to watch...running/kicking/jumping back....AWESOME...like kung fu fighters

Quote:
R - Stasis - Nayenne switches her weapons. She can reactivate this ability for 5 seconds after the initial activation to fall to her knees for 2.5 seconds and shield herself by that. The second activation has a cooldown of 60 seconds.
This replaces her Q and W spells. The Q-spells have separate cooldowns.
Passive - Swords: Adds 10/15/20 Armor Penetration and 25 Range on her auto-attacks.
Passive - Blades: Adds 20/30/40% Attack Speed.
While on her knees she becomes shielded by a stasis field. This will make her unable to interact with any of her surroundings and reverse.
While in stasis she regenerates 2/4/6 times faster than normally (total up to 7/14/21% of her missing hp). This doesn't mean that she heals for that much, she does only heal for that much if she has full energy in that time, and significantly less if she doesn't.
Cost: 80/40/0 Energy
Cooldown: 20 seconds.
i think i didn't quite understand this skill...
press....change blades for swords...or vice versa...this part i get....
but why someone will self disable for 2.5 seconds? ok she can be targeted...but she still standing...waiting for her enemies to come and break her to the ground!!

and finnally a base energy cost...wich by the ways was a good touch since it costs nothing at high levels, so she can fully regen her health...

since the regen part has a separate cooldown from the switch weapons thing...it dont needs a 20 seconds cooldown...au contraire my friend it needs a low CD for better use of dash or AD bonuses from W ....capische??

overall good champ...the only part is the % energy costs...in my opinion it brokes this champion completely...she went to nice mechanics fighter to a non-ending bloodseeking maniac who will never stop fight people...this is good ...but not that good...give people a chance

please explain me the % part better....i dont think i follow your thought process....


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Leo Tomita

Senior Member

01-29-2013

you could feedback Shank - the Prisoner....


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Nysta

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Okay, I'll do it, but not right now, I'll have to sleep first.

About the % cost of my champion: She is basically a no cost based champion, the only thing that is actually cost based is her passive. She can chose to activate her abilities or to gather the sustain from her passive. This is why her costs are ridiculously high at full energy and low at low energy. She is not an assassin of that kind and she will not be shut down by her own energy, blue buff or not.
You are totally correct about her being able to use her E every two seconds, but that is only possible every 4.8 seconds, which means that she will be able to use the e, then the w, two seconds later, the e, then wait 2.8 seconds, use the w again to cast e, or wait some longer to cast e and reduce the cooldown to 2 seconds again. As you might see already, this requires her to cast a lot, and will render her passive regeneration mostly useless.
The E does 20% more than an auto-attack + some flat damage. I don't see how that is too much.
About the ultimate: Falling into stasis is a self stun. But it does also make you untargetable and heal you by a bit (which is really only a bit, never to full life, she is not Mundo).
Anyways, you said her weapon swap cooldown was too high. Well, that is probably because earlier the self-stun shared its cd. Also it is not as simple a weapon swap. It enables her to use the other part for a while. It is so to say important to activate it shortly before you want to actually use the ultimate, so that you are able to avoid a bunch of damage.
You prangered that she might be very hard to kill while at low life. I don't think that there is any champion that would deal less dps than she heals. Or less burst. Anyways, say you have 5% Hp left and a total Hp of 4000 (which is a lot!) meaning you die once you take more than 200 Damage. She would heal by 56 Hp per second. This is a lot, but it will not keep her from dieing. Sure, it might be harder to kill her, but it will definitely not be impossible. Also, that suggests that she didn't use any abilities. Which is rather unlikely, too, if you ask me.
This champion will deal a bunch of damage or it will be able to soak quite some damage if built that way. As her name suggests she excels at surviving enemy attacks. This comes due to regeneration(in lategame->ult, usual passive will be mostly useless), mobility, immunity(ult). The true cooldown on the ultimate will be much shorter as long as she keeps spamming the W-spell. This will lower her over all health regeneration, but it will allow her to play more aggressive if her health allows, because it will ready her spells fairly fast.

~Nysta


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Sigismund

Senior Member

02-06-2013

I apologize for the delay, I've been quite busy of late. Here's the review you requested:

Lore:

Quote:
Flow (3/5): Lore is average in terms of flow. Not too many mistakes are made, and the ones that exist are bearable
Theme (2/5): Lore has some sizable thematic issues that prevent it from fitting well into existing LoL lore
Interest (3/5): Lore was good enough to catch the reader's attention & in garnering interest in the champion, albeit with some difficulties
Total: 8/15 x2 = 16/30
You’ve created an interesting premise for a champion, but two main factors seem to be holding back your champion lore.
The first issue is the length of your lore. A champion’s lore should be able to concisely introduce the champion to the player and to garner interest. Most Champion lores tend to be between 225-325 words, but yours is a whopping 1350. You’ve created a unique background for your character, and it shows that you’re very interested in conveying it to the reader, but part of the challenge of writing champion lore is being able to do so while avoiding too high a word count. One way to do so would be to replace the dialogue and/or shorten the description of her own world in a manner that still conveys the important information.
The second issue, and the more significant one in my opinion, is that while cool and interesting, the lore does not fit well into league of legends. A high tech society based around a virtual reality deathmatch conflicts with the more primal worlds that exist in the League of Legends “multiverse.” Other champions who hail from different worlds (Kayle, Nasus, Malphite, Anivia, etc) come from worlds that fit into a fantasy setting, despite being completely different from Valoran. Altering your lore so that it becomes more compatible, while remaining true to your original vision of the champion will likely be a challenge, if you choose to undertake it, but I’d be willing to bet that it would be a worthwhile one. Some ideas that come to mind would be to change the games from being technologically based, to techmaturgically or magically so, although there are plenty of other options as to what you could do.
A minor note that was mentioned previously in this thread is that it feels a little odd to have Viktor use magic in her lore. Techmaturgy/hextech implies a combination of both magic and technology, but neither his lore nor his abilities say that viktor himself has any magical abilities.

Regeneration:
Quote:
Balance (1/3): Ability is seriously imbalanced (either overpowered or underpowered), and should not exist in its current form

Originality (3/3): Ability is unique and brings something new to LoL

Intuitiveness (2/3): Ability is either too complicated or lacking in synergy, but not lacking in both areas
Total: 6/9
The current mechanics for this ability make it very difficult to gauge its strengths, as both her current % hp, and her current energy determine the regeneration amount, but the current value seems very high, as it has the potential to heal almost four times as much as Mundo;s passive (I say almost because it heals based off of missing health), and makes it incredibly difficult for enemy champions to force her off the lane.
The fact that casting other abilities reduces her health regen would be alright on its own, as it would make it primarily a non-combat heal, but the fact the it heals based off of missing health means that it would be best after she has committed to a fight. These two components seem to conflict with each other, and make this ability difficult to balance as it stands. I suggest reducing the regen per second, and either changing it to % of max health or making it be unaffected by her current energy (effectively making her a manaless champion) so that it would be more consistent.

Chain Strike/Sword Dash:
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Balance (2/3): Ability has some minor imbalances that either encourage or discourage the player from choosing it over the other abilities

Originality (3/3): Ability is unique and brings something new to LoL

Intuitiveness (2/3): Ability is either too complicated or lacking in synergy, but not lacking in both areas
Total: 7/9
Chain Strike is an interesting concept for an ability, and Sword Dash is rather straight forward in its effect (resembling Riven’s Ki Burst in functionality, but with a dash tossed in).
My concerns lie primarily with the current setup for Chain Strike, as it seems a bit odd, and unintuitive, to have the spell fail completely if a third unit happens to be in the spell’s path. I would recommend making always pull the first two units struck, regardless of whether or not further enemies are in its path.
A lesser concern is that Sword Dash’s cooldown seems a bit high, but it’s hard to say because you haven’t listed how far she dashed forwards (a longer dash distance would make the current cooldown more suitable).

Tech:
Quote:
Balance (1/3): Ability is seriously imbalanced (either overpowered or underpowered), and should not exist in its current form

Originality (2/3): Ability differs itself somewhat from existing champion abilities and still adds something to LoL

Intuitiveness (3/3): Ability synergizes well with champion role and is easily understood
Total: 6/9
This ability is pretty straight forward in its effects, but it doesn’t feel as if the two passives differentiate themselves enough. Both passives are extremely strong in their effects, but the Blades passive comes across as being clearly better than the Swords passive, as 48 true damage is almost guaranteed to be better than 48 + (0.15*Bonus AD) attack damage.
My suggestion would be to change one of the two passives so that they’re more noticeably different, and to reduce their strengths, as both versions are currently strong enough to be an ability on their own, without the inclusion of the active.

Kick:
Quote:
Balance (2/3): Ability has some minor imbalances that either encourage or discourage the player from choosing it over the other abilities

Originality (3/3): Ability is unique and brings something new to LoL

Intuitiveness (2/3): Ability is either too complicated or lacking in synergy, but not lacking in both areas
Total: 7/9
This is a really neat and unique ability, and although I do have two concerns about it, they aren’t particularly large.
The first is that the ability has a lot packed into it. It gives Nayenne a speed boost, a dash that can potentially reach 775 range total, a powerful single-target nuke, and a single-target attack speed/move speed slow. This can work, but it is a lot to balance in a single ability, and making it all balanced may make the ability feel a bit lacking overall. As things currently stand, it gives a significant amount of mobility on its own. The combined dash distances exceed most jumps/dashes, and that doesn’t even include the speed boost she gets for 3 seconds.
The second issue is that it although it makes sense thematically for her to jump away from her target; it seems a bit counterintuitive for a melee champion to do so.
I would recommend decreasing the total dash distance, particularly the on-hit portion, in order to reduce the total utility it grants, in order to make it fit better with her melee attack range.

Stasis:
Quote:
Balance (1/3): Ability is seriously imbalanced (either overpowered or underpowered), and should not exist in its current form

Originality (2/3): Ability differs itself somewhat from existing champion abilities and still adds something to LoL

Intuitiveness (3/3): Ability synergizes well with champion role and is easily understood
Total: 6/9
Adding in the second active to a toggle form ability is an interesting idea, but this ability’s currently suffers from the same problem as her E. Neither passive really differentiates itself from the other as both increase he damage output. She isn’t given a choice between added defense or offense, added range or mobility, added ability effects or added auto-attack strength, or any combination of the above, and it limits the effect that the player will see when changing form.
The active suffers from the problem that it requires energy to use, especially at early levels, but odds are that she won’t have enough to cast it if she’s in a prolonged fight. This ability is likely to be unavailable for use when she needs it most, which feels odd for an ultimate.
I’d suggest further differentiating the passive so that they give her a choice other than more damage or more damage. As for the active, I’d recommend completely removing the energy cost, so that it will be there when she needs it.

Champion (Overall):
Quote:
Balance (1/3): Champion kit is seriously imbalanced (either overpowered or underpowered), and should not exist in its current form

Originality (3/3): Champion kit is unique and brings something new to LoL

Intuitiveness (2/3): Champion's kit is either too complicated or lacking in synergy, but not lacking in both areas

Interest (3/5): Champion kit was good enough to catch the reader's attention & in garnering interest in the champion, albeit some difficulties
Total: 6/9 x2 + 3/5 = 15/23
You’ve created a unique champion, but some of the issues in her kit, namely her interaction between energy and her passive/ultimate, and the lack of differentiation between her Sword/Blades forms are holding her back. Resolving these issues, and making her lore more compatible with existing LoL lore would go a long way towards improving her appeal. Best of luck!

Final Score: 63/98

I encourage you to raise any concerns you may have about an aspect of my review, be it a particular score you disagree on or an item that you think should/shouldn't be included. I'm still refining the process, and constructive feedback is always welcome. More information about the scoring rubric can be found here: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2952952


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Nysta

Senior Member

02-06-2013

I made some changes to the W-spell: Added a higher Energy regeneration once it is off cooldown, to actually make it possible to chose not to use it. Removed Energy regeneration from the E.

@Sigismund First of all, thanks for your review.

The lore: Viktor creates devices which work magic for him, or something in the like. Anyways, I corrected that part of the lore to reflect what he actually did. And well, sorry, my goal was not to craft a lore to this champion but to tell a story and craft a champion around it. Sure, that doesn't quite fit here, but I won't be able to change that and still stay true to my goals.

About the Passive: It has a much more active role in her kit that Mundo's has. She can't just build Warmogs over Warmogs and still do good by the way. It heals for roughly the same over-all. At 50% health with 50% energy it heals about the same, even though you might rather want to compare it to Garen's passive. It used to heal % max health and she used not to have any base health regeneration. I have changed that though, because people said it was overpowered. This is not a non combat heal though. This is a combat heal based off on your own choice. Might be much clearer with the changed W. I think it is about where it has to be, and I can't correct it by any means without playing her in-game. With other words, I just can't do it more exactly.

The dash range is the same, the cooldown of this spell is about 5 seconds late-game. There is no way that this is too high.
The skill does not fail completely if it hits a third or fourth or whatever target, it will still have dealt the damage from the first hit. The only thing that gets dropped is the pull effect. This doesn't mean that you don't pull anything at all, it does only mean that you pull them to the position of the third target hit. This might be used as harass tool, seeing that you won't have to actually pull someone if you don't want to. Just pack some minions in between and that's that. Anyways, it does also open ways to play against her, which might in general be a bad idea otherwise. Walking on the same spot makes on vulnerable to AOE, but it would save you from the pull in this case. If you ask me, this is a rather interesting, not a bad thing.

The blades and swords passives come along with other passives themselves. Also, the swords passive does amplify the E's damage whereas the blades passive does not. The true damage is at about 66% of Irelia's damage and the additional damage is at about 40% of Mundo's E. I don't think they would qualify as abilities on their own. If you still think so, please explain.

E: What? Longer dash? Huh? The distance traveled will be 450 all the time. There is no way to increase that. You can't just add the range of the skill-shot to the dash. Once again, you get choices with this ability. You want to go in? Use it against a wall and dump the damage. You want to kick someones ass and still stay close to him? Pull him back towards you right afterwards or just dash back in using the sword dash.

I see what you mean, but she is forced into something by those. These abilities mean: Go for swords if you built damage, go for blades if you didn't. As fighting stance that is. But yes, basically it is modifiers that do the same thing, add damage. I can't find a way around that though. I mean, I don't want to have it unnecessarily complicated. I know that it's senseless to have 3 ways of doing one thing in one ability instead of one way. But it does really make a difference in this case, you see?
It is the first activation that costs, not the second one. Sure, this needs some planning, but it doesn't hurt you all that much. Anyways you might be right, she is no real cost based champion in the first place, so there's no reason to add costs to any spells, at the very least the ultimate, which over-all is some kind of 'oh-****'-button.

I would really like you to explain to me what you think is seriously imbalanced. Really.

~Nysta


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Nysta

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Anyways, would you support the idea of making the W's Passive her Innate and the Innate's effect her W's new passive? This might make this champion easier to understand and still leave her pretty much intact. I'm not quite sure yet though, any responses to this are appreciated.


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Sigismund

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nysta View Post
@Sigismund First of all, thanks for your review.

The lore: Viktor creates devices which work magic for him, or something in the like. Anyways, I corrected that part of the lore to reflect what he actually did. And well, sorry, my goal was not to craft a lore to this champion but to tell a story and craft a champion around it. Sure, that doesn't quite fit here, but I won't be able to change that and still stay true to my goals.
You could always retain the story but opt to write a redacted version as a lore. The “Lore” could potentially be more useful at drawing in readers, who could then go on to read the story you’ve written if they like what they see.
Quote:
About the Passive: It has a much more active role in her kit that Mundo's has. She can't just build Warmogs over Warmogs and still do good by the way. It heals for roughly the same over-all. At 50% health with 50% energy it heals about the same, even though you might rather want to compare it to Garen's passive. It used to heal % max health and she used not to have any base health regeneration. I have changed that though, because people said it was overpowered. This is not a non combat heal though. This is a combat heal based off on your own choice. Might be much clearer with the changed W. I think it is about where it has to be, and I can't correct it by any means without playing her in-game. With other words, I just can't do it more exactly.
The problem is that your current energy costs make it a false choice. It’s unlikely for her to be at 50% energy due to her abilities’ high energy costs. The choice you give her is to be more passive and receive a greater heal, or use her abilities and effectively negate this ability’s effect for the duration of the fight. Depending on her numbers, one of those options is almost always going to be better than the other, and players will either know, and choose correctly, or be unaware, and hinder themselves.
Quote:
The dash range is the same, the cooldown of this spell is about 5 seconds late-game. There is no way that this is too high.
The skill does not fail completely if it hits a third or fourth or whatever target, it will still have dealt the damage from the first hit. The only thing that gets dropped is the pull effect. This doesn't mean that you don't pull anything at all, it does only mean that you pull them to the position of the third target hit. This might be used as harass tool, seeing that you won't have to actually pull someone if you don't want to. Just pack some minions in between and that's that. Anyways, it does also open ways to play against her, which might in general be a bad idea otherwise. Walking on the same spot makes on vulnerable to AOE, but it would save you from the pull in this case. If you ask me, this is a rather interesting, not a bad thing.
Thanks for the clarification about the pull effect, it still feels a bit odd, but it does add some counterplay. As for the cooldown, your scenario accounts for 40% cooldown reduction, which is not something that she’d necessarily have in a given game. This does bring up the problem of whether or not her potential cooldown on the pull might be too low with its current cooldown due to her W’s cooldown reduction. My comment about this ability was when looking at it on its own (independently of her other abilities), but this is nonetheless something that I missed when looking at her kit overall.
Quote:
The blades and swords passives come along with other passives themselves. Also, the swords passive does amplify the E's damage whereas the blades passive does not. The true damage is at about 66% of Irelia's damage and the additional damage is at about 40% of Mundo's E. I don't think they would qualify as abilities on their own. If you still think so, please explain.
Although they may be too weak (by the tiniest margin) to be abilities on their own, both passive are nonetheless very strong. 48 true damage is incredibly strong as far as buffs go. You’re right that it’s weaker than Irelia’s true damage buff, but it also happens to have a 100% uptime. Consider how true damage becomes comparatively stronger than attack damage as the game progresses. Against an enemy that has 100 armor, 48 true damage becomes equivalent to 96 attack damage; this bumps up to 144 against an enemy who has 200 attack damage (admittedly a less likely occurrence nowadays).
As for the Blades’ passive, 48+0.15*AD might be less than Mundo’s E, but there are far better comparisons to be made, as Mundo’s E would be brutally overpowered on just about any other champion (+200 damage on Tryndamere? Yes, please). With 100 attack damage from items, this passive would be granting Nayenne 63 bonus attack damage; once you break past 147 bonus attack damage, this ability becomes better than Yi’s E when active. That’s not that much of a stretch considering how heavily incentivised she is to build more attack damage.
Both passives grant a higher passive boost to Nayenne’s damage than almost any other ability in the game. You’re comparing them to active abilities, but other champion’s passive effects would be a better indicator of balance in my opinion. Their strengths combined with the rewind-esque cooldown reduction active seem a bit much when packed together into a single ability.
Quote:
E: What? Longer dash? Huh? The distance traveled will be 450 all the time. There is no way to increase that. You can't just add the range of the skill-shot to the dash. Once again, you get choices with this ability. You want to go in? Use it against a wall and dump the damage. You want to kick someones ass and still stay close to him? Pull him back towards you right afterwards or just dash back in using the sword dash.
The skill shot moves her physically, and as such I’d argue that the kick should count towards the maximum distance travelled. That kick towards a wall adds additional distance between her and the enemy and/or helps her close the gap on her foe. The ability can make sense when combined with the rest of her kit, but it still feels odd on its own.


Quote:
I would really like you to explain to me what you think is seriously imbalanced. Really.
Hopefully my comments above helped clarify m reasoning. I considered some of her abilities (Her Innate, Her Ult) to be underpowered, while others (her W) came across as too powerful. You have a pretty cool concept, and I’d say that some numbers tweaking could fix a lot of her problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nysta View Post
Anyways, would you support the idea of making the W's Passive her Innate and the Innate's effect her W's new passive? This might make this champion easier to understand and still leave her pretty much intact. I'm not quite sure yet though, any responses to this are appreciated.
Do you mean the new passive you gave her W (the energy regen), the passive damage bonus, or both? I think her current arrangement would work better imo.


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Nysta

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Um, I might do some tweaking but I don't think there is great imbalances over-all.

Her abilities don't cost all that much. They have pretty average Energy costs past the 50% mark, these are even a bit lower than usual Energy champions' costs. Her Energy regeneration will be higher when not using her W though, so I can very well imagine that you will be around 50 or more % in average when you chose not to fight at full power, whereas you would probably be at about 20% when you chose to fight at full power.

Quote:
As for the Blades’ passive, 48+0.15*AD might be less than Mundo’s E, but there are far better comparisons to be made, as Mundo’s E would be brutally overpowered on just about any other champion (+200 damage on Tryndamere? Yes, please). With 100 attack damage from items, this passive would be granting Nayenne 63 bonus attack damage; once you break past 147 bonus attack damage, this ability becomes better than Yi’s E when active. That’s not that much of a stretch considering how heavily incentivised she is to build more attack damage.
About Yi: Does she have an attackspeed steroid? I don't see one.
Tryndamere has a 25-60Ad buff on his Q and this is paired with a heal of 70-300. Furthermore it is further increased by his passive crit-chance. I have no clue how it comes that you're talking about +200 Ad on Mundo seeing that his max rank leaves him with 100-200 Ad (200 if he's terribly low life) but okay.
I guess you imply that you think this is a strictly auto-attacking champion like Tryndamere, Yi, or Fiora. I will lower her base attackspeed and increase her lvl 1 attackspeed accordingly (via Passive.. wohoo more effects, even tough they are bad). Anyways, to really deal damage she would still have to build damage. She can't be viewed at as Mundo or something like that.

Let's just compare her to Vayne a bit. Vayne deals an average of 20+2.67%of the targets maximum health as true damage. Say the target has 2k Hp which is probably below average: 73.3 True damage. Oh, right, I'm comparing late game values here. No denying that it is probably stronger early game. Still, Vayne is a ranged attacker, Nayenne is close ranged. She should deal more damage when given the chance to. And she would definitely not do so by just this ability. But that's no problem seeing that she doesn't deal true damage only, but does also have an effect on top of it.

And if you want to compare it to poor Irelia only having it as an active effect.. she will probably always have it active when fighting. And she does have a healing effect on it on top of that, so that's no damage only skill either.
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The skill shot moves her physically, and as such I’d argue that the kick should count towards the maximum distance travelled. That kick towards a wall adds additional distance between her and the enemy and/or helps her close the gap on her foe. The ability can make sense when combined with the rest of her kit, but it still feels odd on its own.
Seeing that I haven't mentioned her jumping to kick or something the like - But I guess it would be the best thing to hinder that it looks weird. Anyways, moving 200 units in that direction should be enough for the kick not to look weird and it would also not change the effective movement. And it would be pretty much useless if you miss something. As a dash I mean.
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Hopefully my comments above helped clarify m reasoning. I considered some of her abilities (Her Innate, Her Ult) to be underpowered, while others (her W) came across as too powerful. You have a pretty cool concept, and I’d say that some numbers tweaking could fix a lot of her problems.
You considered her ult to be too weak? What? Well, I can easily change that, but it has great utility.
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Do you mean the new passive you gave her W (the energy regen), the passive damage bonus, or both? I think her current arrangement would work better imo.
Just some stupid idea..^^ I'll leave it as it is, but I'll probably tweak the other values by a bit.

My current draft looks like this:
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Abilities:


Note: Using her abilities limits her regeneration, not the further usage of abilities (except for the ult at early ranks). There sometimes is two effects on a single ability, one called blade/chain and the other called sword. These parts of abilities change when she activates her ult, and switches weapons by that. Her ult is not available at level one.

Passive - Proficiency - Nayenne regenerates using her suits regeneration system. She does also gain effects based on her choice of weapons.

She regenerates by 0.6% of her maximum health times the % of energy she has each second. This means at 50% Energy she regenerates for 0.3% of her maximum health only.

Passive - Swords: Adds 5/10/15/20 Armor Penetration and 25 Range on her auto-attacks.

Passive - Blades: Adds 10/20/30/40% Attack Speed.

The sword and blade passives rank up with the ultimate.

Q - Chain Strike - Nayenne shoots out one of her blades on a chain. When hitting the target location it extends to some sort of anchor and starts pulling all enemies behind it up to a limit of two towards Nayenne over the course of one second. She can still cast other abilities or attack while the blade is on its way. Flashing, pulling a third target, switching weapons or hitting the pulled target with your E drops the pull effect.

Sword Dash - Nayenne dashes forward and aims for her targets feet, turning herself around one time. This does also knock up targets hit for 0.5 seconds. Note that this has a higher area of effect than the pull.

If I had to guess, I'd say the pull has about 125 radius and the dash about 250 radius.

Damage: 60/90/120/150/180 (+1 per Bonus Attack Damage) physical damage.

This damage can critically hit and applies on hit effects. Damage dealt to further targets is decreased by 10% up to a maximum of 30%.

Range: 600

Cost: 40%Energy

Cooldown: 20/19/18/17/16 seconds.


W - Tech - Nayenne's weapons get enhanced. She can activate this ability to get ready to use other abilities faster.

Passive: Her Energy-Regeneration is increased by 20/40/60/80/100% while this skill is ready to use.

Passive - Blades: Adds 14/21/28/35/42 as true damage to her attacks by heating the blades.

Passive - Swords: Adds 14/21/28/35/42(+0.15 per Bonus Ad) to her usual total Ad by increasing her swords over-all weight. Does not stack with itself!

Active: Reduces the cooldown of all her other abilities by 3 seconds.

Cost: 40%Energy

Cooldown: 8 seconds.


E - Kick - Nayenne prepares for a mighty kick gaining movement speed for a short duration. She can reactivate this ability to kick the closest target or wall and jump away from it.

Upon activation Nayenne accelerates by 25% over 1 second and stays at that speed for the next 2 seconds.

She can then reactivate this ability within those two seconds to execute a kick (skillshot) dealing 10/50/80/110/140(+1.2Ad)physical damage to the first target hit and jump to the opposite direction for 450 units should it have hit anything. Can also hit walls.

Range: 325

The kick applies a debuff called 'dazed' which slows the movement and attack-speed of the target hit by 15/20/25/30/35% for 1.5 seconds.

Can critically hit. Walls are kick proof. They will endure the kick, no worries.

Cost: 40%Energy

Cooldown: 14/13/12/11/10 seconds.


R - Stasis - Nayenne switches her weapons. She can reactivate this ability for 5 seconds after the initial activation to fall to her knees for 2.5 seconds and shield herself by that. The second activation has a cooldown of 90 seconds.

This replaces her Q and W spells. The Q-spells have separate cooldowns.

While on her knees she becomes shielded by a stasis field. This will make her unable to interact with any of her surroundings and reverse.

While in stasis she regenerates 8/12/16 times faster than normally (total up to 12/18/24% of her maximum hp).

Cost: None.

Cooldown: 18 seconds.
And yes, I would then lower the base attackspeed by a bit and increase the scaling attackspeed accordingly.

With Warmogs and Spirit Visage she would regenerate for 59.4% over the course of 12 seconds (48% over the first 2.5 seconds) when using her ult compared to Dr Mundo's 79.2% with the same equipment. At least that is what my current calculations tell me. I feel like that is too much, even though it requires full energy. I will recalculate after lunch.

Recalculated with 0.6% instead of 0.7%.. it is now 53.46 over 12 seconds with this itemization (43.2% over the first 2.5 seconds). Should be more fitting. Will update her old stats now.

Reduced the effect of stasis to 50% reduced damage and reduced effect from healing reduction from total immunity.


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Sigismund

Senior Member

02-07-2013

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Originally Posted by Nysta View Post
About Yi: Does she have an attackspeed steroid? I don't see one.
Tryndamere has a 25-60Ad buff on his Q and this is paired with a heal of 70-300. Furthermore it is further increased by his passive crit-chance. I have no clue how it comes that you're talking about +200 Ad on Mundo seeing that his max rank leaves him with 100-200 Ad (200 if he's terribly low life) but okay.
I guess you imply that you think this is a strictly auto-attacking champion like Tryndamere, Yi, or Fiora. I will lower her base attackspeed and increase her lvl 1 attackspeed accordingly (via Passive.. wohoo more effects, even tough they are bad). Anyways, to really deal damage she would still have to build damage. She can't be viewed at as Mundo or something like that.
You're right that she doesn't have as many steroids as Yi, considering that she'd only have the the attack damage + armor penetration (compared to Yi's double hit + attack speed + bonus damage), but unlike Yi, her other abilities also benefit from the attack damage increase. The damage increase might not be quite as powerful as Yi, but it would still be very good. Another point to take into account is that we've still been comparing a passive to an active, and the damage can approach/surpass the numbers on Yi's active, on top of always being stronger than his passive.

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Let's just compare her to Vayne a bit. Vayne deals an average of 20+2.67%of the targets maximum health as true damage. Say the target has 2k Hp which is probably below average: 73.3 True damage. Oh, right, I'm comparing late game values here. No denying that it is probably stronger early game. Still, Vayne is a ranged attacker, Nayenne is close ranged. She should deal more damage when given the chance to. And she would definitely not do so by just this ability. But that's no problem seeing that she doesn't deal true damage only, but does also have an effect on top of it.
But Vayne's damage is conditional, which gives it some room to be stronger, because it doesn't do anything unless the condition (3 consecutive hits on the same target) is met. The same argument mentioned above can still apply here; Vayne's Silver Bolts apply only to her attacks, but Nayenne's true damage is also applicable to her Q, unless specifically stated otherwise, because it would count as an on-hit effect.

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And if you want to compare it to poor Irelia only having it as an active effect.. she will probably always have it active when fighting. And she does have a healing effect on it on top of that, so that's no damage only skill either.
But Irelia's W is almost entirely reliant on its Active, the passive heal is pitiful on its own, and it can only be up 42% of the time early game (6 second duration + 14 second cooldown). Her ability might be stronger overall, but that's because purely passive abilities are expected to be weaker due to their lack of downtime and/or costs.
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You considered her ult to be too weak? What? Well, I can easily change that, but it has great utility.
This is all reasoning based on my initial review, and the version of her ult that I had looked at back then. I did consider her ult to be too weak because of its clutch gameplay and the energy cost playing against eachother. You've made changes to it that I believe help it.

Quote:
Note: Using her abilities limits her regeneration, not the further usage of abilities (except for the ult at early ranks). There sometimes is two effects on a single ability, one called blade/chain and the other called sword. These parts of abilities change when she activates her ult, and switches weapons by that. Her ult is not available at level one.

Passive - Proficiency - Nayenne regenerates using her suits regeneration system. She does also gain effects based on her choice of weapons.

She regenerates by 0.6% of her maximum health times the % of energy she has each second. This means at 50% Energy she regenerates for 0.3% of her maximum health only.

Passive - Swords: Adds 5/10/15/20 Armor Penetration and 25 Range on her auto-attacks.

Passive - Blades: Adds 10/20/30/40% Attack Speed.

The sword and blade passives rank up with the ultimate.

Q - Chain Strike - Nayenne shoots out one of her blades on a chain. When hitting the target location it extends to some sort of anchor and starts pulling all enemies behind it up to a limit of two towards Nayenne over the course of one second. She can still cast other abilities or attack while the blade is on its way. Flashing, pulling a third target, switching weapons or hitting the pulled target with your E drops the pull effect.

Sword Dash - Nayenne dashes forward and aims for her targets feet, turning herself around one time. This does also knock up targets hit for 0.5 seconds. Note that this has a higher area of effect than the pull.

If I had to guess, I'd say the pull has about 125 radius and the dash about 250 radius.

Damage: 60/90/120/150/180 (+1 per Bonus Attack Damage) physical damage.

This damage can critically hit and applies on hit effects. Damage dealt to further targets is decreased by 10% up to a maximum of 30%.

Range: 600

Cost: 40%Energy

Cooldown: 20/19/18/17/16 seconds.


W - Tech - Nayenne's weapons get enhanced. She can activate this ability to get ready to use other abilities faster.

Passive: Her Energy-Regeneration is increased by 20/40/60/80/100% while this skill is ready to use.

Passive - Blades: Adds 14/21/28/35/42 as true damage to her attacks by heating the blades.

Passive - Swords: Adds 14/21/28/35/42(+0.15 per Bonus Ad) to her usual total Ad by increasing her swords over-all weight. Does not stack with itself!

Active: Reduces the cooldown of all her other abilities by 3 seconds.

Cost: 40%Energy

Cooldown: 8 seconds.


E - Kick - Nayenne prepares for a mighty kick gaining movement speed for a short duration. She can reactivate this ability to kick the closest target or wall and jump away from it.

Upon activation Nayenne accelerates by 25% over 1 second and stays at that speed for the next 2 seconds.

She can then reactivate this ability within those two seconds to execute a kick (skillshot) dealing 10/50/80/110/140(+1.2Ad)physical damage to the first target hit and jump to the opposite direction for 450 units should it have hit anything. Can also hit walls.

Range: 325

The kick applies a debuff called 'dazed' which slows the movement and attack-speed of the target hit by 15/20/25/30/35% for 1.5 seconds.

Can critically hit. Walls are kick proof. They will endure the kick, no worries.

Cost: 40%Energy

Cooldown: 14/13/12/11/10 seconds.


R - Stasis - Nayenne switches her weapons. She can reactivate this ability for 5 seconds after the initial activation to fall to her knees for 2.5 seconds and shield herself by that. The second activation has a cooldown of 90 seconds.

This replaces her Q and W spells. The Q-spells have separate cooldowns.

While on her knees she becomes shielded by a stasis field. This will make her unable to interact with any of her surroundings and reverse.

While in stasis she regenerates 8/12/16 times faster than normally (total up to 12/18/24% of her maximum hp).

Cost: None.

Cooldown: 18 seconds.
This version does look better, a lot of the issues I ahd with ehr kit have been addressed, and the only concern that comes to mind at the moment (this is after having taken brief look over, so I may have missed something) is that her 0.6% her max hp might still be too high, though admittedly it does take longer for it to reach that strength right after a teamfight than it would take Garen to activate his own passive.