Why do Game Developers think they know what the players want? What games failed you?

First Riot Post
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XistentialHero

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Riots just a bunch of has beens that made a retarded game that has soo many ****ing bugs its not even funny and the fact that the set up is retarded and everything about it is retarded so hey riot go sit on your millions of dollars and build more useless **** in this game.


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Brocade

Member

02-06-2013

@Morello,

I think what people forget is there is this large majority of people that don't partake in video games the same way as most people on the forums. I myself have been back and fourth in a few of these groups. Casual vs Hardcore.

Lets look at WoW first, since everyone has brought it up. Some where in the depths of the Blizzard forums there was a blue post explaining why they started moving to the more "casual" scene. It dropped a crazy fact on us. That a ridiculously small percent of the player base even got to max level to see all the content. (someone find this post for me I can't seem to find it.) From a design perspective this is horrible. You make this game and only a super small percentage of players see the whole thing. In terms of resources this is a waste of them. Naturally devs want to make it easier for more people to experience all the content. No what leaves a bad taste in my mouth is the outspoken "hardcore" players complain about how devs don't make the game for what players want, but these players tend to mix up "players" and "me". The hardcore scene is ALWAYS smaller then any other no matter what the activity.

Now lets look at League. I played Dota back when it was a Wc3 mod and had some fun, but it was just a mod to me. So I was pretty "casual" about it. When League of Legends first came out I saw the trailer and was like, "This looks awesome I want to play this." My first reaction when I started the game was "WTF this isn't a mmo or and rpg. I don't want to play something like Dota." But about a year later after I tired of my mmos I came back to LoL and have played pretty heavily since. The one thing that makes League of Legends different from DOTA is they balance. Counters and Op champions isn't really balance. Balance is something that forces skill to be the deciding factor. Yes there are some champions in League that have "harder" lane phases because of who their lane opponent may be but where League thrives is in its team fight mid-late game. When creating balance there is usually two directions developers go (correct me if I'm wrong Morello) nerfing, or buffing. The reason I think RIOT tends to favor nerfing is because it avoids that inevitable "number crunch". Anyone who follows WoW or still plays WoW should recognize that term. If you keep buffing old champions to make them balanced with new ones you will eventually have math that spirals out of control.

Now Super Smash Brothers. Every iteration added more characters, and new game play elements. This is what a sequel should do as Morello pointed out. It has to be unique and different for it to have a reason to exist. Story/lore/cannon isn't enough. If people wanted to know "what happens next" in a sequel they can go find a book in their book store that will tell them. That being said, I am super (har har) excited for the newest iteration of SSB and cannot wait to see what Nintendo has in store for us.

TL : DR
Balance is hard to do, there are always up sides and down sides. (Nerfing vs Buffing)
The hardcore scene is a minority that happens to be derived from the casual scene (majority).
Super Smash Brothers is awesome.


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Cidat

Member

02-06-2013

Morello:

One thing I notice about multi-player games is the ability to enter and exit a game freely, and not be inherently penalized for it. If we are playing a FPS and there are thirty people on each team, players come and go as they please, and if someone does bad its no big whoop.

However, League of Legends is fundamentally different from these other multi-player games in this respect. When we are matched up, we as the players are forced to stick with whoever we are randomly paired up with. We can leave at the character select screen, but there will be a waiting penalty to reenter a game. And in ranked we get penalized points now.

Unfortunately, there is a problem with this set up, because trolls have more power over the people who want to sincerely play the game. The very last ranked game I was put into, there were two friends who obviously que'd together and then trolled the entire team at the character select screen, and AFKed leaving us at a 3 v 5. I smelled them out as trolls right away even before the game began, but I didnt have a choice. I had to stay. Sure I reported them, but reporting is little satisfaction. I didnt deserve a loss, and instead of being mad at the trolls I want to turn my attention to the design of the match making process.

Its like at the olympics when one of the fencers lost her Gold medal, not because of her skill, but because the rules the Olympic committee were set up in such a way as to cause confusion. Or the ping pong players who took advantage of the match making set up, and throwing games so they can be placed in a more favorable match up . Certainly, throwing a game on purpose is not good sportsmanship, and shame on them, but its not the ping pong players fault for wanting to take advantage of poorly designed match making rules. The fault lied with the Olympic committee for not thinking things out, and they are more to blame than anyone else.

League of Legends is a great game, but ironically its not a game design issue that is causing problems. I personally feel its the match making process that is causing the greatest ire for the fan base. This is a game that requires a high level of teamwork, and to put 10 people randomly together in a game dosnt easily reflect the abilities of each individual. We feel lost as individuals.

Is there anything you can say or add to this?


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Rinto

Senior Member

02-06-2013

League of legends is a great game. Easily my favorite mona. The thing is, I don't particularly like novas. No alternate game styles (free for all, tower defense, story mode, etc) that you find in games like warcraft (the parent game to lol). My friends always remind me that game modes like that aren't really what the game is about, but still I want them. I fear that league of legends will become a game that continues to move along the path of increasing complexity to the point where it is no longer fun. It does get boring for some of us after a while. I want variety. I want a game that can break out of its shell and become something truelly extensive in content and popularity.


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Jake Compton

Senior Member

02-06-2013

why is this sticky


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TheCøøkieMonster

Senior Member

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Manthing

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Member

02-06-2013

Every fable game after the first..why Peter..why?


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xTheatreTechiex

Junior Member

02-06-2013

games that made me feel dispointed? skyrim- was so bad, once you join a guild (black brother hood, fighters guild, etc.) you do 2 quests and your suddenly the leader of the eintire clan
-fall out new vegas, self explanatory
-every halo game since halo 3, i mean really? what was halo 4?
-gears of war 3 was terrible, its like they lost all intrest in putting together a story line
-mass effect 3, DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED


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blobbert

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Senior Member

02-06-2013

One thing I have seen in League of Legneds lately is the idea of countering and just picking a strong champion overall. I see too many Lee Sins, Garens, Graves, Taric, etc. Not to mention the jump when someone like Shen isn't banned in ranked play. Leauge at the moment is growing stale because of the power creep with these champions. Why would you pick X champion when Y is so much better style of play is bad. It funnels people into a small champ pool. You rarely see Riven picked in drafts and while you do pride on the fact that 80% or so champions were picked during the world finals or last tournament it needs to be taken into account that some of these champions were picked/banned a much higher majority.

As for math let us take a 8 man tourney with single elimination and best 2/3

in each game there is a total of 16 champions that are selected between picking and banning.

In the 8 man tourney there are 7 matches so 14-21 games. This leads to 224-336 total champions in a shortest/longest possible scenario, respectively. With 110 champs in the game this leads to each champ being able to be picked 2 to 3 times. Yet there are still champs that are picked once in a blue moon and those who are picked 100% (pre nerf Diana).

Riot you need to focus on balancing champions in the lower tier. The newer champions you are coming out with are balanced after they see a week or two of plays with a buff here or there. Such as Jayce and Diana. Yet with these champions you do not see the others that are gathering dust in the champion select screen. Xin Zhao, who was terrifying after his rework, is rarely seen along with urgot and sivir. Please take a look at putting champions up to par with others so that players choose graves because they like the high burst damage style and being "in your face with a shotgun" style play rather than the fact that he can blow up any carry in lane with a simple e->q->r.


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Trydan

Senior Member

02-06-2013

EverQuest
World of Warcraft
Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition

All games with outstanding potential ruined by people who couldn't be bothered to listen to someone else's ideas.