Why do Game Developers think they know what the players want? What games failed you?

First Riot Post
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JevelFaithful

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConBug View Post
I'll tell you where riot will fall.. if they keep letting kids ban adults for "talking to much" or "being annoying" or "negative attitude" in a game when your not even cursing or raging. after having two accounts banned for this. Riot is losing me and my business. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/en/case/6185552/
not all of your games are ban worth. All of them are report worthy. As they say here : you're a d*ck.
So use your wings and fly away. cawk cawk cawk.


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SmittyFromAbove

Senior Member

02-06-2013

You want the biggest game developer that ignored their fans, look no further then the people who made Diablo 3! Never buying a Blizzard game ever again.


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AORainmaka

Member

02-06-2013

@Riot Staff. Like a poster mentioned earlier in this thread, sometimes the epic storytelling is what brings us back. I LOVE LOVE LOVE (sorry for the caps but gotta get the point across), the Lore of some of these characters. However, there is no background giving a clear lineage or even background to some of the stories being set up. Giving a clear map of the "nations" surrounding the league and then possibly even making up little books of wars that happened between them would be far from expensive. I'm sure you could strike a deal with an author to take certain cuts and start putting books based upon characters out in the market. If anything you will make money with the use of your name.

Someone had mentioned that the characters are someone you could see yourself interacting with is extremely intoxicating. I love the idea of magic and armor, sometimes I believe I was born in the wrong century. PLEASE give me more of the stories. I love reading about them. I love that characters have their own personality that varies even just slightly from another. Even though I stopped playing WoW I find some of their books to be exhilarating, and the same goes for some of the Halo books. It gives me a way to enter a world where possibilities are endless......without a computer.

And since there seems to be a lack of this, THANK YOU for all that you work on and how you read these posts. You are under appreciated and deserve the recognition.


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Kirthalion

Senior Member

02-06-2013

This may date me as an old man, but the game that went from the absolute best to absolute worst in development terms in my eyes was Ultima Online. The game went from a rugged dangerous world of kill or be killed to a completely protected Utopia with all the killers (or would be killers) in their own alternate dimension, relegating them to prey upon the predator. Who remembers this? The developers lost total sight of what was important to the real player base which is why the game lives on in privately run servers that advertise pre-Trammel (as it was known) mechanics. Before the dark times, before the Empire (of EA).


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Jamochawoke

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by aorainmaka View Post
i love the idea of magic and armor, sometimes i believe i was born in the wrong century.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aorainmaka View Post
i love the idea of magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by aorainmaka View Post
born in the wrong century.
*cough*

Attachment 607876

*cough*


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JevelFaithful

Senior Member

02-06-2013

kirthalion : i dont remember it, but how did they do? did they added a soft ban system where the dangerous players had their own servers?


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Stormrunner89

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Junior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fatalii View Post
The new final fantasy games. Everything after ff10 just blows. No free world map and ****
This is reeeeeally subjective. Personally I loved XII and XIII (and XII had a massive free world map to explore btw).
All of their games have problems, it's just nostalgia and personal preference that seems to be making the newer games get such a bad reputation.


A game that was ruined for me was Diablo 3.
I already wasn't very good at it, but was still having fun. Then they came and nerfed the hell out of all the the characters and I didn't have a desire to play anymore when I couldn't make it 10 steps without dying.


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Kirthalion

Senior Member

02-06-2013

@Statiqhock:

The game initially was an open MMORPG where the only safe zones were inside towns. It was a large world filled with dungeons and wilderness. If you went outside the town borders, you were freely open to attack from other players and anything you were carrying at the time could be looted from your corpse, even going as far as cutting off your head from your corpse and displaying it proudly in your own (player purchased and placed) house/keep/castle. As the game progressed there was complaints about the nature of the game (stealing was a skill even, you could steal out of people's packs in town and if you were savvy enough, bank the item before the guards were called and you were killed.) What resulted in the changes the developers implemented was an expansion of the safe zone. The world became a mirror of itself. One side you were completely safe from other players wherever you went. The game would not allow you to attack or be attacked by another player. That was Trammel. In Felucia, which you had to choose to go to, there were no restrictions, no safe zones. You could be killed any time by anyone anywhere and you could do likewise. Before this division it was fun to be either the hero or villian, either defending the helpless from the player killers (who were OFTEN far superior in terms of skill) or being the killer and reaping the spoils. The change to the mirror world completely removed this aspect of the game. No more helpless to protect, no more weak to prey upon. It completely ruined the game for many of the players including myself who seek that player vs. player atmosphere. Playing against the computer builds your basic skills, playing against a person is the real test of your ability. That is what the game lost and it resulted in large number of people leaving with a bad taste in their mouth.


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TheCøøkieMonster

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
It's a tricky topic, because our job is to make decisions based on what players not only want, but need. Let me explain that a bit.

Determining what players want is actually pretty simple - your most invested users tend to be very vocal and will put effort into making sure they're heard (ie; most forumers!) This is a good metric of understanding what players want, at least for high-engagement folks.

What players need is where players don't proclaim a desire for something, but it helps provide something they say they want. Many times, this is more than a single solution - it requires several steps of implementation to reach a result, or takes time to bake in many cases. Let me provide two example of want vs need, and why want cannot be the only driver for developers;

At Riot, we nerf champions. Nerfs are rarely wanted (and many times, unwanted). But, players want to have a fair experience with a variety of options. Additionally, a game without power caps and heavy power creep (something still happening faster than I'd like...) can disrupt the core game design focused around choices, decision-making, and strategy. To accomplish this, we need to nerf champions, even if players don't explicitly want us to.

To use your example, in the pattern of Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King, the changes to easier raid content and more accessibility is actually informed by a want that a lot of players expressed - IE, raids were content that was exclusive from them and they wanted a piece. I respect the guys who make WoW (and its success is a testament), but this is a good example of where the developers should have recognized the core need of exclusivity and the right tuning of that, and steered away from players said they wanted. Personally, I think Burning Crusade is a sweet spot.

The above is a fantastic example of why we have to make tough choices and not always just do what players ask us to do - it's not always the right course of action.

The problem you're speaking to, in my opinion, is when developers think they always have that answer and that being a developer gives you divination into what that is. In my mind, game development isn't about having answers - it's the ways in which you find them.

Our interaction on here isn't just lip-service, it's so we can better optimize decisions around player wants - and explain what players need when they don't want it. This informs us a lot, but we make decisions based on a number of factors - player desires and feedback being one of them.

I hope this helps explain how I feel about this, and how the developer/player interaction looks to me.
DID you run ingame survey for the population to see upon login?

Let them opt out of the poll or do the poll for 10 RP ... lol or free ...

Let us use our voice and be heard.....

The top 5% in ranked IS NOT the population....the population is 100%


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Tetsero

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Senior Member

02-06-2013

Maplestory got better with time.

Gunz removing K-Style is the best thing ever. K-Style was literally hacking built into the game. You avoided bullets literally while attacking. That is an awful mechanic. Leveling up taking days upon days. Grinding for 1 hour for 10% (and that's level 30 to 70) is terrible.

This game, like those games, is getting better.

Also games with limited items (items not based on the amount of time you spent on the game, but on the random time you may have played the game) are evil. The only exception to this game may be King Rammus. That's because most CBTers dedicate time and effort into making the game better for all of us (excluding the stress testers in CBT, though they should only do that in OBT).

Items that last only a certain amount of time (ward skins, 1/7/30/90 day hyper teleport rocks/clothing/etc, etc) are all evil and bad policy.