Man... Sion's model is terrible.

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Aeaeros

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
Sion definitely needs some love. What would your expectation for an update be? His current (typical) gameplay doesn't really lend itself to 'beefy guy with axe'. Do you think we'd need to change the kit or visuals in order to get something cohesive, or would you be satisfied with a straight improvement of his looks with his current abilities?
I put some more thought in to this. And I think what I'd really like to see:

-- There should be some sort of emphasis on his Psionic abilities --

1.) I know I mentioned it 3 times already, but his Q really needs the graphic of him hurling a big axe to stun someone. Now, in theory an axe throw sounds more like a skill-shot than a targeted ability; however my reasoning for this is the fact Sion has psionic abilities. Or more precisely (see point 2). (Also, this needs some AD scaling, hybrid AP/AD, favoring AP)

2.) I think his shield graphic should focus on his axe. Sort of a graphic of Sion holding up his axe and the shield emitting from his axe. Why? What if Sion's axe was the source of his psionic power? (To reference another character, think of Arthas/Lich King with Frostmourne, a huge source of his power IS his weapon, Frostmourne)

I believe with these two things you could reconcile the idea of a hungry abomination/aberration. Focus the lore and his aesthetics on the fact his axe is psionic and it can really make a lot of his undead/psychic work.

Anyways, I really think besides visuals this could work and you wouldn't even really need to re-conceive and redesign him. (Even if I think Xypherous had a super cool idea, still seems to me a big thing to Morello is connecting visuals (form) with purpose (functions))


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Jack of Fury

Member

02-05-2013

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Originally Posted by glittergirl1995 View Post
Bruisers use spells too. What's the difference then? And how does Sion's E and R not define him? You are using very selective reasoning
I agree here, I think Sion's E (possible infinite health) is his most defining feature, followed by his MASSIVE lifesteal steroid.

Those are really the only parts IMO worth keeping on him. The stun is the exact same as Taric's, not unique and not even as fabulous, and the shield is... meh.


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NotBuzzJack

Senior Member

02-05-2013

You guys shouldn't make him look like a mage, because AP Sion is pretty much Annie gameplay wise. Rework him into a guy that mindlessly beats you with an axe, and make him look like a guy that mindlessly beats you with an axe.
I want him to run in and crack some skulls, not stare people to death.

If you really want to make him look undead, you'll probably need to add some more exposed bones, and China will just have to deal with that.


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Zedilurk

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Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
Sion definitely needs some love. What would your expectation for an update be? His current (typical) gameplay doesn't really lend itself to 'beefy guy with axe'. Do you think we'd need to change the kit or visuals in order to get something cohesive, or would you be satisfied with a straight improvement of his looks with his current abilities?
I don't really think his kit works anymore. With the synergy that most kits bring to the table now, and the fact that all infinite scale champs (nasus + veigar) are out of the spotlight due to the requirement of farm, his kit becomes even more outdated.

If you want to stick with a similar visual effect (which is cool, Sion is unique and relate-able in the sense that we are already familiar with his appearance) I'd be all for it. As for abilities, I love these opportunities to throw out some new kit ideas.

Now, I see Sion as a beefy tank champion. I mean, he has an arrow in his shoulder blade!

Passive: Feel No Pain - I like Sion's passive for a tanky champion personally, however it could possibly go further and advance that passive to his teammates to a smaller degree (giving them, say, a 20% chance to resist 20/30/40 damage).

Q: Cryptic Gaze - Sion's most well known ability, and the passion (or lack thereof) of the LoL Community. As a tanky champ, this becomes a key initiation and peel skill which would create real viability for Sion.

Now, since I've always found a key issue with Sion is mana costs. He doesn't have the mana necessary to do his job when he needs it most, so this may be a good reason to try out adding a new resource to Sion (be it the Fury System where his skills become more potent based on the Fury Stored, an Energy System such as Shen's. Through use of one of these systems Sion can use his abilities WHENEVER he has them up, making him a strong peeler AND initiator as he can do his job when he needs to.

W: Death's Caress - Fun if you're building AP, but if you're building AP, it seems to defeat its own purpose based on the fact that you are risking your squishy-ness (from lack of tank items) to blow up your only defense to deal damage. While it may present some interesting trade offs as far as damage vs survivability goes, it doesn't seem to fit. A possible better fit for a tank styled champion such as what I am proposing would be to utilize his Axe. It's that big for a reason right? Thinking defensively in terms of "big axe", the first thing that comes to mind would be a shield. Picture Sion spinning his Axe in front of him (like Jax does with his lantern over his head). Now with his Axe, he creates a wind field (or force field) that can be used to deflect/absorb enemy skills and becomes impassable by enemies as well.

Example: Ezreal uses his ulti, your ADC is low, you as the tank run in front of them, activate your shield and are able to block the skill, saving your ADC.

Example 2: Sion sees blitzcrank lining up a pull. To avoid blitz pulling his teammate and this fight likely becoming a 4v5, Sion pops his shield and flashes in the path of the grab, blocking it and ending the shield, saving his team from a probable wipe.

Reason this is Balanced: Since the shield would break after one deflected skill, it can't block too many cc's to be deemed overly OP. It can be popped by any skill, including something like Ez's Mystic Shot. Additionally, with the skill only effecting the area in front of Sion (and possibly his sides as well), the lack of proper placement (aka, back turned) will render the skill useless.

E: Enrage - As I mentioned before, infinite cap farm abilities have fallen out in League due to the length of time it takes for a player to achieve the farm necessary for it to make enough of a difference in the game. Sometimes, the game may be over before this point is even reached, and the entire game was spent farming.

While the addition of damage to this skill while on is great for AD Sion, the question becomes, what is Sion supposed to be currently? AD? Great, His Q+E+R Have pretty decent synergy for AD, but if he's AP, Sion's ulti and E become virtually useless, which isn't fun for the player to limit themselves to what is essentially a 2 skill kit.

In order to solidify Sion's kit as a tank champion, I would continue to look in the direction of peel and initiation as they are deemed two of the key elements in a good tank character (see Leona, Taric, Singed for examples). Continuing with the theme of Sion's large Axe, consider replacing Sion's E with a Darius/XinZhao element. Sion spins around, swinging his axe, and pulling anyone caught inwards towards him.

This provides a necessary peel element to his kit that really solidifies Sion as a fierce tank champion, as well as adding another small level of initiation should he find an enemy is straying too far from his team.

Last but not least..

R: Cannibalism - An interesting and fun skill, but with his current kit, not much synergy when built anyway other than AD. So I suggest a full replace of this skill.

My idea for Sion's ultimate would be to share the power of his Axe, granting it to target ally providing them with bonus AD or AP (grants one or the other based on which is higher on target ally), a small slow (cripples from how big and powerful the axe is), and bonus lifesteal or spell vamp (based on whether the ally receives AD or AP, which is then split between Sion and his target ally), thus making this skill usable on any member of his team and still benefiting them with their most beneficial resource (AD or AP) while not providing both to make hybrids overly powerful, and providing some small healing and defenses for that character (be it a carry, or yourself charging into battle giving yourself the buffs).

As far as visually, I can see Sion's Axe, floating over the target's head, glowing red and empowering the target with a red aura of power.

Edit: By the way, I'm a college student studying Game Design, so any feedback is really appreciated. Thinking about applying for an internship at Riot over the summer!


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Jack of Fury

Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotBuzzJack View Post
You guys shouldn't make him look like a mage, because AP Sion is pretty much Annie gameplay wise. Rework him into a guy that mindlessly beats you with an axe, and make him look like a guy that mindlessly beats you with an axe.
I want him to run in and crack some skulls, not stare people to death.
I think it would be awesome if he got some sort of Garen's Judgement type skill (spin2win)

and he could yell something defining

like "IM JUST A KINDERGARTEN TEACHER" etc.


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Private Riem

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Back from the dead (so to speak) this suggestion is more than 2 years old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Private Riem View Post
While we're on the topic of not saying anything, might as well say something.
My idea for a possible rework
Q: Cryptic gaze
Sion deals X magic damage to target enemy. For Y seconds, Sion can activate Cryptic gaze again to jump on the target, instantly autoattacking it and stunning for Z duration.
(Or: Projectile stuns, and while stunned jump becomes available)
Either way, projectile would cost half the mana, jump the other half. This would allow Sion to somewhat harass without completely throwing his mana pool out the window.
W: Death caress
Sion shields himself for 10 seconds. After 4 seconds, he can detonate his shield.
Shield HP scales with a % of Sion's max hp, (% increasing every level) with the damage scaling of AP(not a big fan but it would allow AP Sion to survive if necessary, damage also increasing every level, this would also help to make a "tank Sion" build somewhat possible)
Enrage: Toggle:
Increase Sion's damage by 25/35/45/55/65, and he gains 1/1.5/2/2.5/3 maximum health per kill.
Additionally, when Sion kills a unit, he gains a % of the unit's total HP as heal.
(this would help with his laning sustainability issues)
R Cannibalism:
Cannibalism -Passive:Grants Sion 25/35/50% lifesteal and 25/35/50% attack speed.
Additionally Sion can activate Cannibalism to give him double the lifesteal and attack speed bonus for 20 seconds. When activated, Sion creates a death aura around him, healing allies in range for 25/35/50% of his damage dealt.
Passive- Feel no pain: Sion has a 35/45/55% chance to ignore damage up to 100% of his armor(100 armor = up to 100 damage blocked. 200 = 200 etc) each time he is dealt melee damage.. The damage reduction is calculated before armor benefits are taken into account.

Could be OP, I'm in no place to tell. It would definitelly help him though. And with a 50% bonus attack speed at level 16, thats 50% IAS I don't have to itemise for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhang inTact View Post
Stuff[/B]
Sion
is
not
A TANK
Just because he has built in hp scaling doesn't make him one. As a tank, his ult is useless, his E is useless, and his W is useless.
Even his passive is pre mitigation!


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Kiwibonga

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotBuzzJack View Post
You guys shouldn't make him look like a mage, because AP Sion is pretty much Annie gameplay wise. Rework him into a guy that mindlessly beats you with an axe, and make him look like a guy that mindlessly beats you with an axe.
Way ahead of you
Attachment 607138


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NotBuzzJack

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwibonga View Post
Way ahead of you
Attachment 607138
The heck?


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The Sound

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Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwibonga View Post
Way ahead of you
Attachment 607138
O.O


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RiotAmes

QA Analyst

02-05-2013
3 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwibonga View Post
Way ahead of you
Attachment 607138
Well, I have nothing further to contribute here.