Why do Game Developers think they know what the players want? What games failed you?

First Riot Post
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Aheadatime

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Serious question Morello. Do you feel like the HP-stacking meta changes (pen formula, resistance price/efficiency, HP price) were needed?


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Farstride

Senior Member

02-05-2013

You know, Coming from the blizzard forums, I'm really glad Riot's all over these forums. They're like regular posters.

Thanks for the input morello, it's nice to get a viewpoint from how you guys see things.

EDIT: Crown jewel of character design, has to go to Riven. Almost 500 games latter I still have not yet found a funner champion to play then her.


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ZerglingOne

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
WoW is a well-crafted game. Our own personal tastes do not equate to what is good and bad in game development, only what our potential engagement is. And, to be frank, if you're not the audience, it has little impact on anyone else.

I don't like playing Halo. Halo is an extremely good game.
Ahem. This is simply incorrect.

Innovation drives the gaming industry in one way or another, and WoW never innovated anything.

It had relatively poor graphics at launch, even on the highest settings. This is somewhat mitigated by the lighthearted art style, but it cannot be overlooked either way since it did -not- serve any kind of means to an end. Games with bad high settings graphics at launch have traditionally existed, but there is almost always a reason for it such as in Shadowbane, the inclusion of massive siege warfare.

The 2 sided conflict of characters with different classes available (initially) had been done before in MMOs. Battlegrounds and CTF style combat had been done in other MMOs, Raid style content had be done before in MMOs. Crafting with almost identical systems existed in other MMOs before WoW. Seamless worlds existed prior.

Nothing World of Warcraft did was particularly unique or innovative. The main reason it became such a huge smash hit was because it was made by Blizzard.

Being set in the Warcraft world made it instantly desirable to everyone that had played a Blizzard game, which was a LOT of people. They recruited their friends to play with them who pulled in friends, etc. And we get the legacy that is World of Warcraft.

I never got sucked in because I'd played enough games prior to it, that I wasn't impressed in the slightest by any of its features.
,
Was it polished at the time excluding graphics? Sure, hell yeah. But to someone who has been playing the genre of games since Everquest, it was incredibly bland and uninspiring. Especially at launch.

At least with LoL, while you guys certainly haven't invented the MOBA genre, you did add things to the lexicon. You DID add permanent passive abilities, you DID create the first successful MOBA with its own engine. You thought of outside of game advancement (for the genre of course). You thought of runes. You made GP10 a thing. You created brush mechanics, something only LoL has in the MOBA genre.

And it's all free.

Do I respect World of Warcraft? Of course I do. It's made gaming normal in every day life and an acceptable pastime. It made more money than you can imagine and brought my first and favorite genre of computer games to the masses. But it wasn't special. It wasn't particularly well crafted. It was just -VERY- well marketed.


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MostlySilent

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solance View Post
I think they are great in design mesh with gameplay, problem is they lack counter play, have you ever seen a lizard,mogs, and frozen fist hec or a full build late game singed? They are nigh unstoppable, they are also hard to shut down early game and still com back strong late even if you did. just my opinion though, I do love them both
There's some of that, but they can get kited so badly and are both prone to being ruined early game based on picks/what you do.

They're both also pretty good at dealing with getting kited, but I don't know if I'd say they lack counter-play. They have a lot of power if allowed to get there, but they can be dealt with. It's just kinda hard sometimes if you don't plan around it.

Bad design? Eh, maybe. I tend to think it's alright, they're more late game carries than anything.


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Kodi the Hunter

Senior Member

02-05-2013

I've never really been let down by a game developer but I have been let down by the corporations that financially back the game developers. I will never forgive NCsoft for what they did to City of Heroes.


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Raptamei

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MostlySilent View Post
I tend to to think Singed and Hecarim are really, really well done.

Singed in particular.
Hecarim has 2 spells that are just mindlessly mashed when they come off cooldown, and two dash type spells on a long cooldown. There just isn't much to him.


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Morello

Lead Designer

02-05-2013
27 of 91 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZerglingOne View Post
Ahem. This is simply incorrect.

Innovation drives the gaming industry in one way or another, and WoW never innovated anything.

It had relatively poor graphics at launch, even on the highest settings. This is somewhat mitigated by the lighthearted art style, but it cannot be overlooked either way since it did -not- serve any kind of means to an end. Games with bad high settings graphics at launch have traditionally existed, but there is almost always a reason for it such as in Shadowbane, the inclusion of massive siege warfare.

The 2 sided conflict of characters with different classes available (initially) had been done before in MMOs. Battlegrounds and CTF style combat had been done in other MMOs, Raid style content had be done before in MMOs. Crafting with almost identical systems existed in other MMOs before WoW. Seamless worlds existed prior.

Nothing World of Warcraft did was particularly unique or innovative. The main reason it became such a huge smash hit was because it was made by Blizzard.

Being set in the Warcraft world made it instantly desirable to everyone that had played a Blizzard game, which was a LOT of people. They recruited their friends to play with them who pulled in friends, etc. And we get the legacy that is World of Warcraft.

I never got sucked in because I'd played enough games prior to it, that I wasn't impressed in the slightest by any of its features.
,
Was it polished at the time excluding graphics? Sure, hell yeah. But to someone who has been playing the genre of games since Everquest, it was incredibly bland and uninspiring. Especially at launch.

At least with LoL, while you guys certainly haven't invented the MOBA genre, you did add things to the lexicon. You DID add permanent passive abilities, you DID create the first successful MOBA with its own engine. You thought of outside of game advancement (for the genre of course). You thought of runes. You made GP10 a thing. You created brush mechanics, something only LoL has in the MOBA genre.

And it's all free.

Do I respect World of Warcraft? Of course I do. It's made gaming normal in every day life and an acceptable pastime. It made more money than you can imagine and brought my first and favorite genre of computer games to the masses. But it wasn't special. It wasn't particularly well crafted. It was just -VERY- well marketed.
But WoW redefined what MMO's are for an entire generation of gamers by using well-known methods to deliver the first "doesn't kick you in the balls over and over" theme park experience. While maybe it didn't invent gas powered engines, it certainly built the Model-T.

Innovation is a powerful thing to have, but it's not the only thing that defines a well-crafted game.


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Tekel

Senior Member

02-05-2013

hey morello, just a tiny repost of asking my question on page 38 incase you skimmed over it , what do you think is the main thing that attracts people to play League of Legends, again and again, despite it being repetitive?

lots of diff ideas from people all across the forums, but I'd say you probably have a pretty good idea considering you're one of the biggest factors in making the game popular


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Solance

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
But WoW redefined what MMO's are for an entire generation of gamers by using well-known methods to deliver the first "doesn't kick you in the balls over and over" theme park experience. While maybe it didn't invent gas powered engines, it certainly built the Model-T.

Innovation is a powerful thing to have, but it's not the only thing that defines a well-crafted game.
Its 1:54, I think the caffeine is getting to you, time to call it a day/night/earth's rotating, We need you alive for more abusing later today!


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Kirballs1

Senior Member

02-05-2013

I personally think simple champions would benefit a lot from unique and advanced summoner spells,a lot like flash it takes some skill in learning to use it and makes champs feel more rewarding when you sucessfully made a play with it.Kind of how capcom made ryu from street fighter feel more advanced with fadc combos.Any planse like this in the future?