Model Size inconsistencies are ridiculous

First Riot Post
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Sylph

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Emissary of the League

02-02-2013

Thanks for taking the time to post, SpaceStallion.


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Kezair

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Senior Member

02-02-2013

A human child is a smaller human.
An adult yordle is about the same size as a human child.
How big is an angel? The same size as a human, but with wings?

I realize it's a lot harder with Kayle because her wings are so big and her wings are iconic. They look great, they feel great, having huge wings is awesome, but scaling her proportionally would make her a giant.

It's when she lands that's the biggest problem, since she's flying normally and it makes her seem larger because of perspective. Seems finicky to pin down to adjust skillshots accordingly and such, but maybe when she lands on the ground to emote, she should scale larger or something >.>

At any rate, thanks for posting. My post kind of sounds snarky, but I don't mean it as such. I recall a Rioter posted something about how there was a long term scaling normalization down the road, so I don't mind it right now.


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SpaceStallion

Lead Character Artist

02-02-2013
4 of 7 Riot Posts

You are totally right that Kayle is a great example of the challenges with scale when you have a game with a top down camera.

She has large wings plus she flies which makes her much closer to camera than other characters.

Those two things make her quite a bit larger on overall screen space. As such, her body ends up being pretty petite when you land her on the ground and imagine the wings removed.

We did try making her larger so her body was closer to someone like Ashe but then we had a character that was pretty gigantic. No character's scale is ever 100% locked in stone, that's why we constantly keep an eye on them and adjust to something that's the best overall compromise between visuals and game play.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceStallion View Post
As such, her body ends up being pretty petite when you land her on the ground
Petite Kayle is best Kayle.

Think of it as a lore opportunity-- the tiny Judicator walking the Halls of Justice.


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Ecclessian

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceStallion View Post
You are totally right that Kayle is a great example of the challenges with scale when you have a game with a top down camera.

She has large wings plus she flies which makes her much closer to camera than other characters.

Those two things make her quite a bit larger on overall screen space. As such, her body ends up being pretty petite when you land her on the ground and imagine the wings removed.

We did try making her larger so her body was closer to someone like Ashe but then we had a character that was pretty gigantic. No character's scale is ever 100% locked in stone, that's why we constantly keep an eye on them and adjust to something that's the best overall compromise between visuals and game play.
Hey Stallion, is there any way you guys could just increase Kayle's overall size and simply make her wings untargetable? This way we actually get a feeling of a zealous angel come for divine retribution as opposed to say, Tinkerbell coming to share some pixie dust.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecclessian View Post
Hey Stallion, is there any way you guys could just increase Kayle's overall size and simply make her wings untargetable? This way we actually get a feeling of a zealous angel come for divine retribution as opposed to say, Tinkerbell coming to share some pixie dust.
Why can't she be both?!

A fiery Tinkerbell coming to share some Retribution Dust.

(There's probably a champion concept in there somewhere, too. Edit: No, not Puck.)


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SpaceStallion

Lead Character Artist

02-02-2013
5 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Hey Stallion, is there any way you guys could just increase Kayle's overall size and simply make her wings untargetable? This way we actually get a feeling of a zealous angel come for divine retribution as opposed to say, Tinkerbell coming to share some pixie dust.
The problem isn't just if you can target the wings, it's that they could also obscure game play. Imagine trying to find yourself in a crazy 5v5 team fight with giant wings covering up the action. >.<


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceStallion View Post
The problem isn't just if you can target the wings, it's that they could also obscure game play. Imagine trying to find yourself in a crazy 5v5 team fight with giant wings covering up the action. >.<
Well, there's always that targeting outline translucency, perhaps.


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Mattarias

Senior Member

02-02-2013

o_o Uhm.. How about scaling her wings down a tad, and her body up a tad...? You're right on the animation problems though.. >_>; Ough..


WTB translucent-winged Kayle skin..


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GenActive13

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Senior Member

02-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceStallion View Post
The problem isn't just if you can target the wings, it's that they could also obscure game play. Imagine trying to find yourself in a crazy 5v5 team fight with giant wings covering up the action. >.<
Easy to imagine really.....it's no different then a team fight with Cho'gath in play. In fact, Cho can make things quite bad in a AoE storm of champions and spell effects but everyone seems to get by just fine. In my mind this makes the "Kayle's wings obscure the action" argument mute. Look at Anivia's wings, she is huge when they are at full span yet there is no problem when she's in the team fights. End result is, her wing size is not a problem any more then other champions with large scales at any time.