Why remove the MP regen from Nasher's?

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Elwasd

Senior Member

02-01-2013

kayle was probably just about the only champ who could really fully utilize all of the stats nashors had to offer, now it is less atractive even on her.Riot should just kill hybrid kayle already and make her ad or ap already, and scrap nashors while they are at it.... Hybrid kayle is not as great as she used to be anyways....


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kavinh the third

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Senior Member

02-01-2013

if i had to guess i'd say the m/5 stat was overcharging it so they're gonna remove it and at the same time lower the cost so that it's a more affordable item. mana regen's always been the stat that's more or less useless and a gold sink since chances are u'll have a healthy amount of mana before each fight.


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MajorSwain

Senior Member

02-01-2013

There are only 15 Manaless champions out of 110

Renekton, Tryndamere, Shyvana, Kennen, Akali, Shen, Zed, Mordekaiser, Vladimir, Rengar, Mundo, Rumble, Garen, Katarina, and Riven

Of the 15 menetioned, Shyvana, Tryndamere, and Rengar and the only ones that depend on AAing to deal damage. Out of these 3, none of them have a legitimate AP/AS build.

That leaves us with 0 champions that were prohibited from using Nashor's Tooth.

On the other hand, the few AS/AP champions who did use Nashor's Tooth, all have mana, such as Kayle, Teemo, AP Varus, AS Lulu, etc...

So who is Riot saying really needed to use Nashor's Tooth, but didnt want to pay the Mana Regen Tax?


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TealNinje

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorSwain View Post
There are only 15 Manaless champions out of 110

Renekton, Tryndamere, Shyvana, Kennen, Akali, Shen, Zed, Mordekaiser, Vladimir, Rengar, Mundo, Rumble, Garen, Katarina, and Riven

Of the 15 menetioned, Shyvana, Tryndamere, and Rengar and the only ones that depend on AAing to deal damage. Out of these 3, none of them have a legitimate AP/AS build.

That leaves us with 0 champions that were prohibited from using Nashor's Tooth.

On the other hand, the few AS/AP champions who did use Nashor's Tooth, all have mana, such as Kayle, Teemo, AP Varus, AS Lulu, etc...

So who is Riot saying really needed to use Nashor's Tooth, but didnt want to pay the Mana Regen Tax?
Kennen?

(Note: I am completely against the whole "removing mana regen from items" thing. I would 100% support huge nerfs to champion mana regen and huge buffs to item mana regen, making mana regen actually a thing again. You could then buff said abilities, to make it an actual trade-off going from mana to no-resource.)


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rayray135

Junior Member

02-01-2013

I would have to say nashors need its mana regen back i had a few builds that used it depending on my char and role. its a less diverse item now and that just hurts everyone. It was key for anyone who could use it well like tauric or sometimes corki, and any other who can benifit from the speed, cooldown, and Ability it gives as well as the slight mp regen.


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67chrome

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Honestly mana per 5 seems generally useless when you pick up something with it. At least when it's not specifically designed to solve mana issues, as:

A: If you have serious mana issues you can generally pick a specific item to solve all of them (ie Athene's or Muramana), which generally makes all other mana per 5 seem as wasted potential, or:

B: you can just ration you're ability use to a point you don't really need mana per 5, or possibly never really feel out of mana enough to merit picking it up.

Beyond that resource management tends to be rather black and white - either you have enough mana to cast something or you don't, there's not the same shift in killing things or not dying to things a variety of other attributes easily show. This is further emphasized by mana per 5 and mana being so set up towards 5-minute lane harass games they don't tend to help at all in fights (as regeneration is to small to notice and mana bars are so much larger than a burst combo rotation), they just help you maintain a level of mana between fights. Which seems less exciting than purchasing everything else that really does have a noteworthy impact on how fights unfold. LoL is just a game were mana per 5 and mana operate so far in the background you can reach a point were it feels like your wasting gold in place of more useful things (unless you can actually make mana useful in a fight beyond running OM at a bad place).


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CTElephant

Senior Member

02-01-2013

NAUTILUS!!!!! hehe well I use it on him for top lane kill purposes and it works amazingly well with hiskit.


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Treza

Senior Member

02-01-2013

making the item cheaper wasnt a nerf to kayle its a buff. its her go to item for the dps it offers the mana could have been off it all this time and it would still be worth it
the quicker you get nashors the quicker you win

although i do miss my faerie charm ward 6 pot starts *-*


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Laxiliary

Junior Member

02-01-2013

i get nashor with TF, the CDR grants max CDR with passive and mastery. The higher AS procs passive quicker. although i liked the bit of m/5, i dont really have a problem with it coz its cheaper now


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itsbigfoot

Senior Member

02-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zidaryn View Post
Hey there.

Was just wondering if someone could explain the logic behind taking the mana regen off of Nasher's tooth. I can understand them wanting to change the Fiendish Codex and how it works. But why not put the mp as part of the build for Nasher's?

Nasher's filled a niche roll in my opinion. It gives good dose of atk speed, a bit of ap, a bit of cdr, and a bit of mp/5. For this reason Nasher's works great on ADC champs who would like a bit of mana regen and have an ap skill but don't want to have to sacrifice a slot for an underpowerd or completely different item from the ADC atk speed build they're doing.

The items left that have mp or mp/5 for that an ADC MIGHT build are:
Manamune: too much of an investment if you don't need that much mp or mp/5 for not enough atk spd.
Blessing of the Elder Lizzard (name?): Sure it's got hp/5 and mp/5 in a nice item with some atk damage. But this item is underwhelming in the atk dmg area and is suited for junglers/ bruisers not ADCs that want a bit of atk dmg and a lot of atk spd.

I know I may not know much, but could someone please explain to my why the did this?
AD carries never build mana regen items because they lower your damage, and by the time they have a few levels, their mana costs are irrelevant. The whole point of ad carries is to have a champion that can build all of the most expensive damage items while staying safe, if you are buying mana regen and ap you aren't really helping your team by filling that role.

Nobody built nashors because it gave such an odd stat combo, very few champions want attack speed, cdr, ap and mana regen at the same time, at least one of those stats was going to be dead, sometimes two. So, by cutting one of the regen, they shaved off one of the stats that was usually dead (mana regen is almost useless past early game outside of a select few champions), which made it more attractive to buy.