@Riot: Where are all the programmers? :,(

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linkmastr001

Junior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhattayaBrian View Post
Well, there's a long overdue bug getting fixed in the next patch related to stats. I'm pretty happy with that.
Is it the bug where the damage stats in the game overview at the end don't quite add up? or the healing numbers are really wonky?

Those stats are so weird...


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Spada Lunga

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhattayaBrian View Post
You know one language, you know them all. If you really know C++, you can pick up any other language very quickly. What's most important is being able to program well and prove that you can. You should try to feel as comfortable as you can with:

1. Choosing a data structure or algorithm for a given situation. They each have their tradeoffs.
2. Being able to understand other programmers' code, even when its written in a different style than yours.
3. How to architect a new system to be extensible and sensible.
4. How to refactor an old system.

These are all extremely critical skillsets that are language agnostic (except #2 in Python lololololol).



Hmmmmmmm........

Well, there's a long overdue bug getting fixed in the next patch related to stats. I'm pretty happy with that.
Please Nidalee base damage on cougar tooltips! Please!


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Anymeese

Senior Member

01-29-2013

@WhattayaBrian
I know if I send you a friend request itll be auto declined from a full list, so if by some miracle you would like to honor me and chat it up, please add me Like I said in the OP, id love to talk about anything programming, riot, league, etc. When do you normally play?

You too @RiotSchmick

And thank yall so much for taking the time to reply to all of us!


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RiotTantram

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Senior Software Engineer

01-29-2013
20 of 73 Riot Posts

O hi thar.


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ZeroKuno

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Isn't it that you aren't a Programmer in one field but an Engineer in many fields?


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ZetaVoid

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotTantram View Post
O hi thar.
Hi

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhattayaBrian View Post
Well, there's a long overdue bug getting fixed in the next patch related to stats. I'm pretty happy with that.
Is it the one where sometimes ranked stats don't get recorded, such as it not showing my quadrakill in season2, or the other multikills of many other people? :1


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Tanthalason

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Im just starting a GSP degree this year then hoping to transfer to a uni in a couple of years for a Bach in software engineering....but this talk is wizzing over my head for the most part...I've only dabbled in c++...cant wait to really get into it though =).

In terms of jobs though eventually id really like to be a game programmer/dev...do I HAVE to move to Cali? Since the majority of the gaming industry is HQ there from what Ive been told/read about


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DragonLord

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

How much is AS3 used at Riot. I hope to be able to join the Riot Crew (like many others do), and I've been working for a company doing a website mostly in Flash. I also know some php as I constantly need to retrieve user data from databases. I'm really hoping that my experience here will carry over well.


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RiotSchmick

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Software Engineer

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01-29-2013
21 of 73 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anymeese View Post
@WhattayaBrian
I know if I send you a friend request itll be auto declined from a full list, so if by some miracle you would like to honor me and chat it up, please add me Like I said in the OP, id love to talk about anything programming, riot, league, etc. When do you normally play?

You too @RiotSchmick

And thank yall so much for taking the time to reply to all of us!
Unfortunately we are limited by the same friends list max as everyone else, so we can't add when our lists are maxed out. : \ The best way to continue this discussion is on the forums. Personally, I think that's pretty neat because then everyone gets to benefit, participate, and contribute.

I play mostly at night, but sometimes at lunch I'll do a community ARAM. I often post in PlayWithRiot when I start ARAM games. I always call the game RiotSchmick's ARAM, so you can look for that, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley183 View Post
How did you learn to teach yourself any new languages? I've tried reading and watching tutorials but idk nothing sticks. I've wanted to program for gaming companies all my life but my school doesn't offer anything related to programming besides math and im taking best I can.
Whenever I've had to learn a new language, I start with the official website for the language, reading documentation and using tutorials or examples given there. In addition, if I have co-workers who already know the language, I will ask them to refer me to any resources they found useful. The more languages you know, the easier it becomes to learn new ones, as you can draw on existing knowledge and language commonalities.

If you really want to get into programming and you are at a college that doesn't offer CS, you might want to consider transferring to a school with a stronger program. That being said, it isn't impossible. My degree was in Psychology and Linguistics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john View Post
i have a question as well

if any of you are long-time riot programmers (i.e. you were there before season 1) can you tell me about any difficulties you may have come across due to the game's rapidly exploding popularity, and how you effectively dealt with them? anything from scalability issues to security problems to software design in general.

thanks
I have only been here since May of last year, so I can't speak specifically to what Riot ran into. In general, though, rapidly exploding popularity is something you always try to be prepared for, and something that you are never really are prepared for fully. For scalability, you architect a system that has no single bottleneck, with components that can be horizontally scaled as needed. You ensure your database interaction is optimized, indexed, use caches effectively and efficiently where possible, etc. However, as your CCU goes up, there is that inevitable part of the system that is slowing things down, and then you have to think creatively about how to modify the now live system with minimum downtime and no loss of data. You move carefully toward bigger changes with smaller incremental changes, to ensure that you don't make things worse or break your live system. Load testing is of course key at every stage.

Security is also one of those things that you are always thinking about, plan for ahead of time, but inevitably have to make corrections for as you gain users. The more popular you are, the more people try to hack you or even non-maliciously tap into your data. Just as with scalability, you come up with solutions to solve the problems that arise as you go.

Sorry I can't speak specifically to the Riot case, but hopefully that was useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenîth View Post
I found my new favorite Red.
To be fair, I'm not the only Rioter who would give that answer. : )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaugh View Post
i also have a few question (my programming knowledge is limited to 1st yr undergrad):

1. since lol is such a big game (im guessing ~10k+ lines of code?) im sure u guys have to read/edit other programmers code. do u guys ever get pissed off due to poor documentation or bad style of the code?

2. being the master programmers u are, do u still get compile or exception errors when u code?
1. Every team I have worked on at any job has had to deal with this problem. Usually we just decide as a team what our coding standards are going to be. That doesn't mean that everyone just happens to agree, but that we discuss and compromise and come up with what we will use as a team. Everyone then sticks to that, new team members are educated on it, and then these sorts of conflicts are lessened. The same goes for documentation. We agree on what we will document, where, and how. There are sometimes people who don't adhere to the coding style or documentation agreements, but the team tends to police that and bring people into line. If you have really stubborn people who just refuse and aren't team players, then there is probably a bigger problem with that person anyway.

2. Of course we do. No one is perfect. Using an IDE makes it so that one rarely has compilation errors when building or deploying code, as the IDE informs you as you type the code if it isn't compilable. Everyone will get run time errors in their code sometimes, though, as we are all human and make mistakes. Writing test cases is the best way to cover all of your bases (i.e., code) and ensure that these errors won't be found after you commit by QA or, worse, in your live code.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtwizted View Post
Our matchmaking is most likely going to be a simulator based on random profiles generated using the elo rating tier that was introduced in the end of S2.

The algorithms we are going to create for matchmaking is going to factor in elo/match hisotry/level/queue time priority and we will test how 'successful' we are by using probability and statistics that we can gather from how the elo system works (I believe it was something along the lines of 400 elo over someone = chances of winning is increased by 10x).

The database would be used to hold the generated profiles and to manage the net gain/loss of elo and display players that are currently in game/queue/online/idle/etc.

We're not quite sure if we need to actually use SQL to manage the database of generated profiles or if we are able to do it within the java/c codes, or how we would put it all together in the end.

Would really love to have a discussion over this via league client or skype instead of having to f5 all day lol
Elo, level, and queue time are all factors I would also take into account. What do you mean by match history? Do you mean number of games played? If not, that's a factor I might throw into the mix as well.

How do you plan on doing actual match making? In other words, you have all of these factors, but how do they fit together? Which are the most important? Do they change in importance over time? How do different values determine who is matched together? How are the comparisons done? How do you keep track of who you will match as you're doing individual comparisons or are will you be doing group comparisons of some kind? Will you support people queuing in groups? If so, how will the values for your factors be calculated for groups? Will you be reading data from the database for every comparison or match you do? I'll leave you with those questions to start. : )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserturkey View Post
<--Indy Game developer and Computer Science student(Interned at IBM) question for you guys, when I worked at IBM I got to do development on an agile development team not going to go into too much detail, I'm just curious as to what you guys do in terms of development strategies, do you use agile methodologies and such and any SCM solutions, automation for regression testing etc?
It depends on the team. Agile methodologies are pretty popular here, but each team makes their own decision about what works for them. Agile methodologies are often modified or combined to create a process that works better. Testing of all kinds is highly valued, and automating it wherever possible is a win. As for SCM, the specific tools and processes used again varies by team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryster View Post
Do you guys have a lot of web developers? Because it seems like your website has been nearly the same for a while. Also, other simple things like avatars and profiles aren't even here. Is that because you guys don't have the people to do so, or is that something lower on the chain of things to do?

I am taking a web programming class right now as well as my software engineering and computer architecture. And I just was learning about how easy some web programming can be in comparison with other coding. Just curious about how many web programmers are there? Or do some other coders work on the website in the downtime since it is a simpler coding process (in some peoples opinions).
We do have dedicated web developers and they work on various things. The tribunal, the forums, the www.leagueoflegends.com website, the esports / tournaments websites, promo sites (like Shadow Isles, Snowdown Showdown), and other things I don't even know about are all worked on by web developers. Rest assured that whatever the various teams are working on is awesome, is intended to bring awesome directly to you guys, and has been determined to be the best way to bring awesome to you out of all the possible initiatives they could be working on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotTantram View Post
O hi thar.
Taaaaaantraaaaaaaam!


Okay, I hope I didn't mess any of that up. That was the longest response I've ever done. It took me awhile to respond to all of those. There may have been more posts made since I started typing this. I will try to get another round of responses in after work today.


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Aithòs

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhattayaBrian View Post
You know one language, you know them all. If you really know C++, you can pick up any other language very quickly. What's most important is being able to program well and prove that you can. You should try to feel as comfortable as you can with:

1. Choosing a data structure or algorithm for a given situation. They each have their tradeoffs.
2. Being able to understand other programmers' code, even when its written in a different style than yours.
3. How to architect a new system to be extensible and sensible.
4. How to refactor an old system.

These are all extremely critical skillsets that are language agnostic (except #2 in Python lololololol).



Hmmmmmmm........

Well, there's a long overdue bug getting fixed in the next patch related to stats. I'm pretty happy with that.
I agree with this 100%, people want to know what they can "learn" to become a <insert game related job here> and the answer is almost always: nothing. You can learn anything you want, it's the ability to really understand and apply things that are useful in the work force. You can do certain things to increase your chances but being really good, working hard and making the WORK your passion will go the furthest.

Want to be a game designer? Design games, get with some programmers and artists and hammer some out. Get something out there, see what worked and what sucked, be honest about what sucks and figure out how to do it better the next time.

Want to be a game programmer? Program games, get with some designers and artists and hammer some up. Get something out there, see what worked and what bugs crushed your sleep for weeks. Figure out limitations and overcome them, don't rely on Unity or other engines to do your work, get down and understand what they are doing and write your own classes and functions instead.

The point is this: most gamers think they can play a lot of games, learn something in school and magically get a job. Wrong. You need to have proof you can do the job, proof you want to, not just the skills. I'm a senior systems programmer, I'd love to work on games and I've done some coding and some design and it's not nearly enough. Knowledge doesnt equate worth, when I was an EB Games manager I never hired the game geeks, why? Game geeks can't sell, you can't teach a nerd to sell but I can teach a salesman to sell games

Work hard, but do your passion, not just the skills. Now if only I could buy some free time to work on any of the projects I've dreamt up! Lol.