Vi's ult not QSSable.

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TBXGambit

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Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
The point is clearly that Vi is a Bruiser who exhibits the particular characteristics that cause Bruisers to be extremely powerful.

"Powercreep" refers to a newer champion having more power than an older one of a similar style.

AKA, the abilities of the old melee champions like Yi, Nasus, Sion, Trundle, Udyr, Warwick, Pantheon, Poppy and the like are somewhat outshined by the newer ones.

In League, this usually occurs by Mobility and CC creep.

Riven and Jayce have a lot more ability to move around the map and CC things than those older champions.
i would say that if anything Vi is not a overpowered champion by any means i think shes is stronger due to the current state of her role more so than her design or numbers
what needs fixing is health stacking. and that will be addressed before season 3 ... i expect anyway ... thats usually how it has worked


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Daryslash

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
The point is clearly that Vi is a Bruiser who exhibits the particular characteristics that cause Bruisers to be extremely powerful.

"Powercreep" refers to a newer champion having more power than an older one of a similar style.

AKA, the abilities of the old melee champions like Yi, Nasus, Sion, Trundle, Udyr, Warwick, Pantheon, Poppy and the like are somewhat outshined by the newer ones.

In League, this usually occurs by Mobility and CC creep.

Riven and Jayce have a lot more ability to move around the map and CC things than those older champions.

So, like I said, go open a thread about the powercreep.

Posting like this, in a Vi thread, just makes you look like a QQer who got stomped by her. Because it looks like you want particular nerfs to her, which I understand now is not true, since you're complaining about the new bruisers as a whole.


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xXLightRainXx

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Donno why some people dont understand. Its simple. Brusiers can be both assasin and tanky, or combination of both in the same game. They can change builds for a more assasin focus or a more tanky depending on what the team needs.
That makes them a much better chose than just an assasin like talon or zed.
Just check champions popularity in ranked games... How often you see a talon carry?
Brusiers tend to carry much harder, just think about riven on a team or talon on the other..... And the rest bots of same champion and skill level... Riven wins, just better pick, ita simple guys


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryslash View Post
So, like I said, go open a thread about the powercreep.

Posting like this, in a Vi thread, just makes you look like a QQer who got stomped by her. Because it looks like you want particular nerfs to her, which I understand now is not true, since you're complaining about the new bruisers as a whole.
Except I'm talking about Vi in this thread about Vi.

That you may think anyone who has a negative opinion of the champion is a "QQer" is basically your own problem.


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Utensil

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01-27-2013

I think it all sounds pretty simple, I'd make the whole thing QSS-able except I'd speed up her ult timer (because, for one, it is pretty slow) and then make a radius in which the "slamming you into the ground" did damage if you were within a radius of it. You could make the damage aspect a 2 parter, half with the impact of hero + hero, and the half with hero slamming into ground.

If you sped up the initial charge and made that non-QSS-able then they would at least receive some damage. Think of it like Malz ult, if they QSS in time they can run away and be dealt only half damage, should the same not be said for Vi?


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A Rabid Teemo

Senior Member

01-27-2013

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Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
QSS not working on Vi's ult is intended functionality. Assault and Battery has two parts: the charge and the slam. The charge effectively turns Vi into a targeted projectile. As such it can't be QSS'd before it lands as there is no true debuff on the target (similar to a Naut ult or Taric Dazzle). It can however be "popped" by things that make champs untargetable (troll pool). The slam begins at the start of the uppercut animation and is functionally 1.25 second knockup. Knockups are also not QSS able nor are they reducible by tenacity. The slam IS NOT a suppression as it does not silence one's summoner spells (with the exception of flash which is silenced by all CC's that prevent you from casting).

During the charge Vi is immune to all CC. During the slam Vi can be knocked back or CC'd but any CC's applied WILL NOT prevent Assault and Battery from applying it's full CC and damage. While this functionality seems weird I felt it opened up Vi's ult to more counter play without affecting it's intended functionality too negatively (Vi used to be immune to CC during the charge AND the slam). There is no stopping Vi's ult, but there is a small window where your teammates can CC her and prevent her from following up on her dunk. Heck if she's ulting you and you get your timing right you can even stun her yourself if your CC move has a cast time (Trist Buster Shot for example).

Also to respond to the Assassin vs. Bruiser debate: SHE'S BOTH, just not at the same time (I hope)
IMO Vi can be extremely effective building tank, bruiser, or assassin/melee hyper-carry depending on the game state.

Tank is FroMa + Defense stacking and focuses on intiation and/or peeling the health stacking bruisers off of your carry (Graves will love the armor shred).

Bruiser is a mix of AD and HP items and focuses on following up on your tank's initiation and using R to pick off out of position targets.

Assassin/Hyper-Carry is pure AD/Pen/lifesteal items (with maybe a Zephyr or IE thrown in) and possibly one defensive item added during mid game. Focuses on entering the fight last and mopping up their team one by one with Q + R mobility, E resets, and W steroids.
You said Zephyr and people upvoted you.

I love you and maybe the internets can calm down now.


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Daryslash

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBreakerX View Post
i would say that if anything Vi is not a overpowered champion by any means i think shes is stronger due to the current state of her role more so than her design or numbers
what needs fixing is health stacking. and that will be addressed before season 3 ... i expect anyway ... thats usually how it has worked
Funny thing is health stacking has never been pointed out as a reason to make her powerful.
She deals no damage at all if she stacks health.


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Division Two

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Wouldnt banshees block the CC effect and damage?


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Daryslash

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
Except I'm talking about Vi in this thread about Vi.

That you may think anyone who has a negative opinion of the champion is a "QQer" is basically your own problem.
Except you're not.

But ok, QQer.

Truth is Vi is on a very good spot right now, alongside the other bruisers. She is even outclassed by most of them in most of situations.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Utensil View Post
I think it all sounds pretty simple, I'd make the whole thing QSS-able except I'd speed up her ult timer (because, for one, it is pretty slow) and then make a radius in which the "slamming you into the ground" did damage if you were within a radius of it. You could make the damage aspect a 2 parter, half with the impact of hero + hero, and the half with hero slamming into ground.

If you sped up the initial charge and maid than non-QSS-able then they would at least receive some damage. Think of it like Malz ult, if they QSS in time they can run away and be dealt only half damage, should the same not be said for Vi?
If it was QSSable, it could possibly work that she charges simply to that area.

But to be honest, making the ult QSSable would seem a little strange thematically.
(Does she just forget who she was charging?)

If there were any changes to her ult, lowered base damage may be useful.

Or maybe it does less damage to her target if she hits people along the way.

I mean, she's got more base damage and .1 less scaling than an assassin ult, and it's nearly unstoppable.

You can straight up Flash at least half of Talon ult, and you can QSS all of Zed ult.