Vi's ult not QSSable.

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gypsylord

Champion Designer

01-27-2013
1 of 5 Riot Posts

QSS not working on Vi's ult is intended functionality. Assault and Battery has two parts: the charge and the slam. The charge effectively turns Vi into a targeted projectile. As such it can't be QSS'd before it lands as there is no true debuff on the target (similar to a Naut ult or Taric Dazzle). It can however be "popped" by things that make champs untargetable (troll pool). The slam begins at the start of the uppercut animation and is functionally 1.25 second knockup. Knockups are also not QSS able nor are they reducible by tenacity. The slam IS NOT a suppression as it does not silence one's summoner spells (with the exception of flash which is silenced by all CC's that prevent you from casting).

During the charge Vi is immune to all CC. During the slam Vi can be knocked back or CC'd but any CC's applied WILL NOT prevent Assault and Battery from applying it's full CC and damage. While this functionality seems weird I felt it opened up Vi's ult to more counter play without affecting it's intended functionality too negatively (Vi used to be immune to CC during the charge AND the slam). There is no stopping Vi's ult, but there is a small window where your teammates can CC her and prevent her from following up on her dunk. Heck if she's ulting you and you get your timing right you can even stun her yourself if your CC move has a cast time (Trist Buster Shot for example).

Also to respond to the Assassin vs. Bruiser debate: SHE'S BOTH, just not at the same time (I hope)
IMO Vi can be extremely effective building tank, bruiser, or assassin/melee hyper-carry depending on the game state.

Tank is FroMa + Defense stacking and focuses on intiation and/or peeling the health stacking bruisers off of your carry (Graves will love the armor shred).

Bruiser is a mix of AD and HP items and focuses on following up on your tank's initiation and using R to pick off out of position targets.

Assassin/Hyper-Carry is pure AD/Pen/lifesteal items (with maybe a Zephyr or IE thrown in) and possibly one defensive item added during mid game. Focuses on entering the fight last and mopping up their team one by one with Q + R mobility, E resets, and W steroids.


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xxxKakashiixxx

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Interesting.


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TBXGambit

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Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
You can QSS Zed ult even though it has no effect before it blows up.

The issue here is not whether it can or can't work as a counter.

QSS can easily be made as a counter to Vi ult by Riot, if there is need for it, and it is balanced.

The thing with Caitlyn ult is there's very good teamwork-based counterplay to it-- a teammate can block it.

With Vi, running into your own team actually makes them take damage and get knocked back.

yes they could change it to be cleanseable.. but why? its not amazing its slow its easy to predict the range on it is not even great. if you are close enough to her for her to ult you then you deserve it. and even if she does ult you you would be instagibed unless shes fed or you built wrong and yes and thats the ONLY REASON there is a red line so they gtfo the way. otherways it would just go. as it is her ult is well balanced long ass CD indicator making it easy to avoid (for your teammates) and its slow. put her in a situation she doesn't wanna be in flash back and have your tank/offtank come and peel her off your and you two can easily wreck her. wait till she ults and hit then cc her and get away .. flash if all else fails. if you are vayne then ult after she or just before she hits you and roll into stun and you are free to casually skip away no problems.


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NotBuzzJack

Senior Member

01-27-2013

And then there's AP tower push Vi.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
Also to respond to the Assassin vs. Bruiser debate: SHE'S BOTH.
That's obviously a problem for this game, if you can tell.

Because Talon isn't both.

And the champions who are both are pretty much all better picks than him in every circumstance.


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TBXGambit

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Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
That's obviously a problem for this game, if you can tell.

Because Talon isn't both.

And the champions who are both are pretty much all better picks than him in every circumstance.
shes both meaning you can build her one or the other... she cant be a bruiser/fighter AND an assassin in the same game. as a bruiser/fighter shes like riven as an assassin shes like lee sin. but not both at the same time.

and actually on the second half of your comment Talon can be built as a bruiser as well. its not the best thing in the world but its effective.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBreakerX View Post
shes both meaning you can build her one or the other... she cant be a bruiser/fighter AND an assassin in the same game. as a bruiser/fighter shes like riven as an assassin shes like lee sin. but not both at the same time.
Yes, and while you're playing the game as Vi (or any of these style of bruisers), you can build Tanky DPS and do great earlygame.

Then midgame you can ramp up the AD.

And 'assassinate' everyone while having a fantastic time during all stages of the game!

One of the problems with "Bruisers" is right there. They do everything great, at all stages of the game.


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gypsylord

Champion Designer

01-27-2013
2 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBreakerX View Post
shes both meaning you can build her one or the other... she cant be a bruiser/fighter AND an assassin in the same game. as a bruiser/fighter shes like riven as an assassin shes like lee sin. but not both at the same time.
Pretty much this. If she's stacking AD she should be dealing a ton of damage but should also be exploding if a grouped up team looks at her funny.

If she's stacking HP with little offense she should have more sustained threat, but she shouldn't be able to kill you in a single combo.


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Iifa

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Senior Member

01-27-2013

There's nothing interesting about that; he just said that she had no counters, you just have to pick one of like three champions or buy a zhonya's on an ADC.


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NotBuzzJack

Senior Member

01-27-2013

You guys have to realize squishies can be bursted down by almost anyone. Heck, Nautilus could walk up to your carry and rip them to pieces.
The problem is when Vi starts bursting down other bruisers. However that's more likely a problem with itemization playing in Vi's favor. cough cough Black Cleaver cough.