Looking for Sejuani Feedback

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Goguma XO

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Meddler, thank you so much for keeping us posted. Please go ahead and do what you guys need to do with Sejuani's passive. It's expected that a portion of the user base will always complain at ANY change, not just because it's different from what they're used to but because it SOUNDS different than what they're used to.

10% slow from Sejuani's passive is so lackluster currently. She's pretty much the only jungler I play these days and I love her to death, but her passive sucks outside of marking for Permafrost. I almost always (mass) mark with Q anyway, and occasionally with her ult. Anyone who's played Sejuani enough will have experienced plenty of times where someone you're trying to stick to with auto attacks gradually get away from you despite the slow, until the Frost mark wears off and get away from you completely. Worst case once was when a BOOTLESS Sona walked away from me with just her E after Permafrost duration. Once Permafrost wears off, that 10% slow is as good as nonexistent.

I main jungle and support(Skarner/Sona in S2 and Sejuani/Sona in S3). And I can honestly say that the 10% slow from Frost almost never make or break a gank. It usually comes down to whether you and your lane mates can get the job done in time while Permafrost is on or if your W still had enough duration to finish them while you chase them towards their tower. I seriously doubt anyone new to Sejuani without any prior knowledge has ever gotten the impression that "wow, her auto attacks really make it near impossible for enemies to get away from me." Skarner's Q is only a 2 second duration conditional slow but by comparison is extremely potent and satisfying even at rank 1.


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwillseeyoubleed View Post
I think her passive should be changed to something like this "Frost - Sejuani's basic attacks apply frost to the target sapping them for 5/10/15/20 of their armor/MR for 3 seconds, and granting Sejuani half of the amount sapped.". I don't think 50 extra MR/armor late game for someone with no defensive steroid would be gamebreaking. However 20 MR/armor Pen. on an entire team may be broken at a level I can't comprehend.
Your adding trundle ult, onto a multiple target opportunity. Just, no....


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcticfury View Post
Denied, I don't like removing her 10% slow. Even if marginal, which 10% is, and even if smaller after red buff, it's 10% of their remaining speed. If they have the same speed as you, or even slightly faster, 10% should be more than enough to stay on them. You're not chasing them, you're staying on them.

Unless you somehow give her some other way to stay on them, and E isn't enough since she has no way to burn someone down fast enough.

You basically have to give her more offense if you take this away. The complaint on Sej has always been that she is either not tanky enough or doesn't have enough offense, and possibly/probably both. Her slows are what kept her from being used less than Karma. Taking one away seems like the exact opposite of what you should do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illyriomysterio View Post
This seems entirely baseless, and until you know where the compensation will come from I don't think it's fair to Meddler.
Agreed, dont be unfair before you know what the new passive will be, or how they will re-arrange the abiltiies, etc.
While i agree, i hate the idea of removing 10% slow, for similar reasons you stated. They might add ms on her, or passive aoe slow of 10%, or plenty of other stuff.
Reserve judgement until things are confirmed


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Feedback from people that haven't played a champion much can be really valuable, especially if there's something that's really off putting or unclear during your first few games. It's a very different sort of to what experienced players with a champion can offer (first impressions/skill floor versus balance and mastery insight) so it's really good to get both. What's particularly helpful is clarity on what sort of background people are presenting their feedback from - new player, occasional player, Sejuani main etc.
Yes, but asking for buffs without knowing if the champion needs it or not isnt healthy imo. Feedback, like what i and many others have supplied during various sejuani threads, is constructive discusion and criticisms. Not striaight out crying for buffs on a champion we barely know.
Theres a distinction, new players to champ calling for buffs is completely different to explaining where they are struggling.
When somebody states why they are struggling, others can assist them, and then problem solved, no need to change the champ unless something is fundamently wrong so everybody from experienced to new are struggling.
When somebody calls for buffs, theirs nothing you can do to help them, its just an extra cry onto the buff train, without anyway to revert it.


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SeCKS Egai

Senior Member

01-23-2013

With Sej, I really like the concept of slowing - but modifying her kit so she both offers something unique to her at the same time having a serious team fight presence would be nice.

For example, Mundo's got that irritating skillshot cleaver throw but is also someone you want to avoid standing next to, all the while being a pain to bring down.

When I think of Sej nothing in her kit really stands out.


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
I've also got some concerns about this. At the moment Sejuani's in quite a strong spot late game because health stacking's generally the best defensive option and fights are lasting a bit longer, giving her more time to take advantage of her strong, sustained AOE damage. Should that change however, and I'm expecting we will see a shift towards mitigation being a solid, appropriate option again at some point, her effectiveness will take a bit of a hit. To some degree that's fine, champions should have strengths/weakness that relate to the state of the game at any point in time, there's certainly some risk though with specific niches that champions may only feel decent/effective when a bunch of other factors align which can be a problem.
Just because the game shifts back into resists doesnt mean sejuani needs to stop building hp.
You can just as easily get 180 armour, 150 mr and 3-4k hp. AND, as we well know, armour and mr getting over the 200 mark is increasingly worthless.


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalGiant View Post
Because she is incredibly binary and doing that would only make it worse. Right now she is pretty much: "Ult up? Good, Ult down? Useless"
No she isnt, Ult up is a bonus, you dont need ult to apply frost to 5 champs. 1 Q and do the exact same thing. Might lose a 2 sec stun on 2 champ and 1 sec stun on the other 3, but her ult is definetly not the be all and end all of her kit, she is most definetly not useless without it.


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elīse View Post
I play Sejuani a LOT and think she is in a pretty strong state, If not a little over powered. I would consider her a farming jungler Up until 6 where her ganks are dependent. With Help at wolves and Blue you can hit level 4 around 3:30 which is pretty solid. She Loves blue buff second time around though to keep ahead of the curve, So pick her with a manna-less Mid Champ. The thing about Sejuani is shes very team/support oriented that if your team is very unorganized, Fights are going to be **** and you should have just picked someone who does tons of damage. Her damage in team fights and ability to stick with squishies or Turn a team oriented fight around is great. I personally like her kit how it is. If you want to make her stronger early game give her passive a damage over time effect to everyone who has it , or just creep that have it. Make her jungle less dependent on manna / make up for "lack of damage" .

Idk. I think shes fine. Has obvious strengths and weaknesses and is fun to play. Probably in the top 50% for reliable characters, maybe even 30%. Fix her clunkyness and make her slow effect more obvious and then STOP THERE. then see how she is.
Where have you been this entire thread, and why arent their more people like you posting here, who actualy realise her power and potential...


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raviance View Post
Hmm, how do you initiate a team fight that gets you blown up so fast?
He mustnt, prob trying to 1v5 a team while his teammate still a while back. SUPPORT TANK, not never dieing unless i take you all with me.


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Whyumai

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elīse View Post
I play Sejuani a LOT and think she is in a pretty strong state, If not a little over powered. I would consider her a farming jungler Up until 6 where her ganks are dependent. With Help at wolves and Blue you can hit level 4 around 3:30 which is pretty solid. She Loves blue buff second time around though to keep ahead of the curve, So pick her with a manna-less Mid Champ. The thing about Sejuani is shes very team/support oriented that if your team is very unorganized, Fights are going to be **** and you should have just picked someone who does tons of damage. Her damage in team fights and ability to stick with squishies or Turn a team oriented fight around is great. I personally like her kit how it is. If you want to make her stronger early game give her passive a damage over time effect to everyone who has it , or just creep that have it. Make her jungle less dependent on manna / make up for "lack of damage" .

Idk. I think shes fine. Has obvious strengths and weaknesses and is fun to play. Probably in the top 50% for reliable characters, maybe even 30%. Fix her clunkyness and make her slow effect more obvious and then STOP THERE. then see how she is.

I find she's weak in the jungle, I find her easy to counter jungle, and I find that she's weak against invasion.