R.I.P All sustain...

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SeiKz

Senior Member

01-22-2013

garen will just ignore you in lanes, he will come to your tower kill it while you attack him, like you are never here before and he will just run away or kill you under your tower, he got so much steroids, if they build correctly he can have more than 200 def, 200 mr, 200+ atk and 3k+ hp, he can rape a whole team because it take so long to kill him, he really need a nerf in his passive in early game and late game he need a nerf in his defense serious in a team fight he will kill all your adc, caster and support if ignored, if you focus him his team will kill you since he take too long to die.
im saying it for a long time but people only care about when "some streamer "pro"" say it that's sad


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VanceStubbs

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavageRose View Post
this is what Scara pointed out recently, as well as Dyrus just last night when watching his stream. Games will lose more comeback potention because champs wont be as viable late game when they are meant to be due to their good scaling on sustain.
Most of those character's sustain don't actually scale to late game, you don't rely on Garen's passive outside the lane for example...


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Stark6000

Senior Member

01-22-2013

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Originally Posted by sh4dowhand View Post
I fear for Fiddles.
drain was already nerfed hard once.


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Dimwitt

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Senior Member

01-22-2013

so volibear may actually be seen...

nope.


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RavageRose

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeiKz View Post
garen will just ignore you in lanes, he will come to your tower kill it while you attack him, like you are never here before and he will just run away, he got so much steroids, if they build correctly he can have more than 200 def, 200 mr, 200+ atk and 3k+ hp, he can rape a whole team because it take so long to kill him, he really need a nerf in his passive in early game and late game he need a nerf in his defense serious in a team fight he will killl all your adc, caster and support if ignored, if you focus him his team will kill you since he take too long to die.
im saying it for a long time but people only care about when "some streamer "pro"" say it that's sad
strongly agree, i find once he gets hi Giant belt the lane is GG you're better off roaming an counter jungling as a top laner when you see his jungler is bot or mid lane.

i honestly wish they would rebuff some sustain gamps who could go even or close to even with Garen. Chos fine as he i right now. i see no reason to nerf him at all. he hasnt been nerfed or buffed in who knows how long. He only seems OP now that they are nerfing all the other champs who could stand toe to toe with him. I loved the old Riven even though i never played her really, maybe 2-3 games when i first bought her, an i agree her R needed a higher CD but other than that she was fine. same with a lot of other champs they recently nerfed.


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RavageRose

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanceStubbs View Post
Most of those character's sustain don't actually scale to late game, you don't rely on Garen's passive outside the lane for example...
not exactly the case, an sustain is mainly used for lane anyhow until you can build more late game sustain through items, which you can get faster by winning your lane. which garen excells at. mid game when Garen is clearly winning youmight run into a smart player who's playing him who will roam everywhere really fast with hi speed boost all the while healing from every gank with his passive as he roams.


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Xenolithium

Member

01-22-2013

Who takes Cho top anymore, anyway?

He's an amazing counter mage mid these days.


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Zuphlas

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavageRose View Post
My next guess is once the forums start raging about Garen soon enough, you will have to rework Voli's passive, or increase it by another minute, because he's sure to be next after Garen.
Voli as a whole isn't a good enough pick to worry about him getting nerfed. He's really easy to kite, and he's situational top at best. You should think of his passive as a weak mundo ult that he has no control over, because that's basically what it is. Ignite still shuts it down and is on a fairly low cd, on top of that there are plenty of champions with built in anti sustain. There are also items for both ad and aps that have a 20 sec cd on grievous wounds if it gets that bad. If you want to talk about sustain nerfs I'm surprised they haven't made it so that lifesteal and spellvamp only have 50% effect on minions yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RavageRose View Post
you might run into a smart player who's playing him who will roam everywhere really fast with hi speed boost all the while healing from every gank with his passive as he roams.
What you said is a bit of a contradiction. His passive takes 9 seconds to kick in and only heals 1% every 2 seconds, so if he's roaming high speed to gank other lanes his passive never has time to work. It only takes a few seconds to go from any given lane to the next one over, and good players are going to have wards up to know that he's coming. His passive is literally nothing unless he decides to go a large period of time out of combat, and at that point he'd be better off going back to base to instantly heal so he can get back to work. Hell, even minion attacks keep his passive from ticking.


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rathy Aro

Senior Member

01-22-2013

@OP:
I don't think I mind sustain being nerfed. With lots of sustain you have a larger margin for error and you get rewarded less for winning trades. There is of course a balance, but if sustain is winning the lane, then that seems wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavageRose View Post
GL countering infin sustain in solo ques until you make it to 1500 elo+. Junglers below that tend to gank mid an bot lane more because of less escapes an easier access. top lane is alway the hardest lane to gank because of only two directions (unless you have a terrain phasing jungler like vi noc malph who can go a large distance without being seen.)

the only realway to counter sustain on your own is with another sustain. however they have nerfed almost all other sustains which do not cost you nearly or more than 10% of your mana per spell (nid).
What... Top is often the easiest lane to gank. its less warded than bot while still being a side lane so you can approach it a couple of different ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavageRose View Post
strongly agree, i find once he gets hi Giant belt the lane is GG you're better off roaming an counter jungling as a top laner when you see his jungler is bot or mid lane.

i honestly wish they would rebuff some sustain gamps who could go even or close to even with Garen. Chos fine as he i right now. i see no reason to nerf him at all. he hasnt been nerfed or buffed in who knows how long. He only seems OP now that they are nerfing all the other champs who could stand toe to toe with him. I loved the old Riven even though i never played her really, maybe 2-3 games when i first bought her, an i agree her R needed a higher CD but other than that she was fine. same with a lot of other champs they recently nerfed.
Cho has always been insanely strong, but I suppose people found his rupture unreliable so Riot buffed/gave it QoL changes to it so it felt more reliable. From that point on Cho became highly picked in tournament play and I saw him more in solo Q as well. The only reason people don't QQ about cho is because he's still not that popular and he doesn't crush you in the way that say katarina does, but he has so much utility, excellent laning phase, buff control, and a ton of innate tankiness. The only comprable champion is nunu and nunu probably deserves a nerf too and his CC isn't even close to cho's.

edit: It should be noted that cho has nerfs on the pbe that might put him more in line with other champs.


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RavageRose

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by rathy Aro View Post
@OP:
I don't think I mind sustain being nerfed. With lots of sustain you have a larger margin for error and you get rewarded less for winning trades. There is of course a balance, but if sustain is winning the lane, then that seems wrong.


What... Top is often the easiest lane to gank. its less warded than bot while still being a side lane so you can approach it a couple of different ways.


Cho has always been insanely strong, but I suppose people found his rupture unreliable so Riot buffed/gave it QoL changes to it so it felt more reliable. From that point on Cho became highly picked in tournament play and I saw him more in solo Q as well. The only reason people don't QQ about cho is because he's still not that popular and he doesn't crush you in the way that say katarina does, but he has so much utility, excellent laning phase, buff control, and a ton of innate tankiness. The only comprable champion is nunu and nunu probably deserves a nerf too and his CC isn't even close to cho's.

edit: It should be noted that cho has nerfs on the pbe that might put him more in line with other champs.
other than the top easiest to gank unless warded bit, all valid points. i never start top lane without a ward since S3 junglers camp. usually flash pot an ward or all pots an 2 ward starters now.

Swain is another good example of a sleeper OP in S3, though ike cho, its because they have been nerfing high sustain champs an sustain stats, which makes them seem OP when in reality like cho, they were once blanced in comparision to before the nerfs. i've already encountered swain QQ threads as well.

About voli ye i agree, an i forgot about mundo until someone else mentioned him. Seeing how i dont play him, as well a AD sion.