Is it just me, or is the Tribunal System TOO strict and overbearing?

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GON the Mage Guy

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBJack View Post
I really wish you'd stop talking about how soft my skin is, it's getting creepy O_o
It offends us statues greatly.


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PoinTBlanK86

Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exploding Barrel View Post
Not to mention half of those never come back to the Tribunal after getting a warning.
Haha, sorry but I know that's a lie. You all can continue to be that gullible if you want, but I'm not so easily bull****ted.


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Shiister

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Senior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoinTBlanK86 View Post
Haha, sorry but I know that's a lie. You all can continue to be that gullible if you want, but I'm not so easily bull****ted.
If you think something from Riot is a lie, then why should we listen to you about the system being too strict and overbearing?

You want clear set of rules, so you can have a line to go by to avoid Tribunal, that what your thread is all about.

EDIT: Also, been a year since my warning from Tribunal, and I see no signs of me even close to going back in Tribunal.


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PoinTBlanK86

Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koelio View Post
I noticed that last part too haha.

Also, I find it interesting that OP and others like him prove Wookie so right so often. He said the toxic players are the ones that want everything black and white.
Before someone jacked my thread trying to joke around about their skin.....No, I used malovent correctly. Sarcasm and irony can be hard to bring through in writing unfortunately. and to quote you. "Wookie so right so often. He said the toxic players are the ones that want everything black and white." Are you really that dumb? Who DOESN'T want it to be clear? Last time I checked, this is what happens to players: You either get banned for NOT muting your team and trying to talk to them. Since almost EVERYONE is an ******* on the internet, they become sarcastic and rude to you. And guess what? You get reported by them too. Then you end up in the tribunal and you are GOING to get punished for SOMETHING....ANYTHING that ANYONE can find. And since it's based on whoever the hell wants to vote (Which most people still believe they earn IP,and are just trying to vote as many cases as they can as fast as they can), chances are you've got a lot of idiots and people who are just ridiculous in some way or another, voting on whther you should be punished or pardoned because you got sent to the 'judging system' by players who are already ridiculous and report on everything and anything, as already mentioned in the first post. Apparently you didn't read the first post, or you just continue to not listen to any type of logic at all.


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Leo2k5

Senior Member

01-17-2013

It puts the lotion on its skin


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PoinTBlanK86

Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiister View Post
If you think something from Riot is a lie, then why should we listen to you about the system being too strict and overbearing?

You want clear set of rules, so you can have a line to go by to avoid Tribunal, that what your thread is all about.

EDIT: Also, been a year since my warning from Tribunal, and I see no signs of me even close to going back in Tribunal.
Shiister you are the WORST forum troll ever. "If you think something from Riot is a lie, then why should we listen to you about the system being too strict and overbearing?" Read that and tell me if you made any sense at all. Better yet, let me jsut tell you. No, you made absolutely no sense there at all. Construct a clear idea in one full sentence and then get back to me, thanks.

Yes I do want a clear set of rules. No, not that I can have a 'line to go by', whatever the hell that means. I want a CLEAR set of rules, so I know exactly what IS and ISN'T punishable, because as it stands, I can't mute my teammates if they are being idiots, *******s, or incompetent, trolls, etc. Why? because they will still report me, and some random in the Tribunal is going to be like..."Well even though his team is all *******s, he didn't "say anything" so that's Refusing to communicate with his team. Punish." and if I don't mute them then it'l go something like this..."Oh the team couldn't work out their differences and come to the same opinion on how to play as a team(which happens...you put 5 random people on a team and they are not always going to have the same logic on how to BE a team together), so since they are arguing, they are all guilty of arguing. Punish."

So you get punished no matter what, becuase it's always going to be someones OPINION that something didnt go right, so everyone should get punished. Which again is completely overbearing and ridiculous.

Please, lose the Superiority complex(this is aimed directly at the usual forum trolls, ie. Shiister, Rampint Idiocy-which by the way, great name. Way to really show how much you thnk of your community by assuming everyone is an idiot.- , MfKraze, etc.) and give a real response.


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Saint Latona

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kades View Post
Alright, so the tone of this thread has definitely taken a pretty unfortunate turn.

We got some calls for some face-punching and some faux medication claims and a bunch of 'man-up' OP nonsense going on... just silliness abounds.


I guess I'll take a stab at addressing the "Man Up" stuff, because I hear a number of people saying that sentiment, even though it can vary on how colorfully they articulate it:


First off, when you are playing a game and you have a less skilled player on your team, Men do not whine and rage at the person they are playing with. Little emo brats that can't control their emotions do that.

When you are losing your lane at top or mid, Men do not blame it on their jungler. Men recognize that they are effectively playing a 2v1. They are confronting the person in their lane while constantly expecting a gank at anytime. Any ganks from their jungler are a bonus. An unexpected windfall. Little emo brats that can't control their emotions are the ones that rage at their jungler for not ganking their lane.

When you are at bottom lane and are lucky enough to have a support who offers to forgo farming at all so that you can farm as much as possible, Men do not rage at their support for being fragile throughout the game. They recognize that their support started with sub-optimal escape items while you most likely went boots. That while you were buying 'fun' items that up your damage or survivability, they were trying to save up enough to buy wards or an oracle while not having any farm- just to help their team survive. It's little emo brats that can't control their emotions that whine and rage about not having enough wards- when they've been farming non-stop and have access to the same wards as their under-farmed teammate.


I agree with you that there is a very real problem in our game with people not being able to "Man Up". But the problem is not with the OP. He handled his frustrations- he didn't lash out like a little boy and start a flame war about the trolls in the game or whine about how useless this community is- he endured his frustration over multiple games, processed it, and then articulated it. Like a man.


If you were playing a game of 5-on-5 basketball at a park near your house- you wouldn't rage at your teammate for missing a shot. You recognize that both of you make mistakes and that it's a part of the game. You might even encourage them because you've all been there.

Men recognize that the skill level on their team might vary. They recognize that in some games, they're just going to be better than their teammates, and that's when they do whatever it takes to win. Men take on a leadership role and offer supportive advice. They buy wards even when they're an AD carry- simply because it needs to be done. They understand that in order to win, you have to encourage your teammates instead of berating them.

That's what 'men' do.

Don't ever whine and rage like an obnoxious little kid and then assume the subject of your anonymous, cowardly 'cyber bullying' is not a 'man' because he takes offense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WookieeCookie View Post
Don't be a jerk.

Players frequently write to my team full of excuses for their case, or fearful that they're going to get banned in the future.

They often want to debate the Summoner's Code down point by point.

Is it okay to do this? What about that? What if someone else does X, and I do Y to them in retaliation? Can I get banned for Z?

And our response can always be summed up with one simple phrase:

Don't be a jerk


Sometimes player's ask why isn't the Summoner's Code more specific? Why doesn't it specify each and every action I can or can't do? But they don't notice that we wrote the Code that way on purpose.

We don't want to run a game dictated by strict specific rules. Because every game is unique, and played by different standards.


How much fun would a rule be that says you can never say the F word in your matches?

How much fun would a rule be that says last pick must always be support?

How much fun would a rule say that you can never be Rammus support because he's not considered "optimal" by the community?


Every game should be judged by its own context. And that's why the core rule is always:

Don't be a jerk.


You can say the F word in a friendly context:



You can also say it in a very toxic context:




---The key difference? Don't be a jerk


Sometimes it makes sense for last pick to be something besides support:


Sometimes the situation can be very toxic:



---The key difference? Don't be a jerk


Sometimes it makes sense to go with a real unusual support pick:



Sometimes an unusual pick can be really toxic:



---The key difference? Don't be a jerk


I've seen this case emote spamming case before. And he fails the test. He was being a jerk.

You can see in his matches that other players ask him to stop. They even do so nicely at some points. But this player doesn't care. He doesn't care because he's being a jerk.

Is he using a feature of our game which has many legitimate purposes? Of course!

But is he abusing this legitimate feature to be a jerk? Yes. He is literally spamming the same phrase throughout the entire duration of the game.

Could other players fiddle with their sound settings to disable this? Sure.

Should we expect other players to adjust their player experience because a jerk is harassing them?

No. Never.

I even spent some extra time looking up this player's past harassment history. This is not an isolated 5 games this player has done this. He has repeatedly found ways to annoy and harass other players. That's the main reason he has a tribunal case in the first place.

Lyte has mentioned this in the past, but the Tribunal is really great at finding jerks in our game. But it's not always great at providing the full context of just how much of a jerk they are. But always keep in mind it takes many reports, in many games, by many people to even be considered for the Tribunal. The system may only pull 1 to 5 chat logs for a case, but make no doubt about it, the accused has been reported in many many more games than that.

The process is always being iterated on and improved though. And if the PB&J Team sees a need for the additional context to be shown, I'm confident in their abilities to make that happen.
Hmm, I wonder whose word we should take more seriously....


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Saint Latona

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Oh boy, I hope I didn't silence the OP forever ._.


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Doct0r Phil

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Senior Member

01-17-2013

1. It's just you.
2. The Tribunal (to me), tends to be more lenient on cases.
3. You seem pretty upset.


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Fudouri

Senior Member

01-17-2013

"Refusing to communicate" is a myth. Haven't found a single case of it from both people who have done analysis on cases. I believe Riot said its a very rare thing (i got impression less than 10).

If you want to change how tribunal judges, its pretty simple, start judging in Tribunal.

Finally, I believe the community is what you make of it. If you have the personality of a mediator more than a hammurabi, you find most raging can be calmed down and the game can continue fine. If you escalate, you will probably find many a games to be rage wars. I personally on occasion will react to someones abuse, it happens, and those tend to end poorly. Other times, I have more patience and play mediator, and those times turn out fine.

Personally, I try to soften the Tribunal line. I tend to pardon for more creative verbal abuse (if a person is putting in thought to how they are making fun of the other person, kudos to them, calling Noob? lazy and punishable). But you know what, that's my personal line, and the way for you to change harshness is to judge.