Eve is back to sucking ____

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Yuan Shikai

Senior Member

01-17-2013

She is just not extremely easy rofl facestomp anymore and actually needs skill now


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Nouvas

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Junior Member

01-17-2013

Read this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrButtermancer View Post
I'm not going to waste your time, so:

Here is the quote from Zileas:

"Unclear Optimization
This is a more subtle one. when players KNOW they've used a spell optimally, they feel really good. An example is disintegrate on Annie. When you kill a target and get the mana back, you know that you used it optimally, and this makes the game more fun. On the other hand, some mechanics are so convoluted, or have so many contrary effects, that it is not possible to 'off the cuff' analyze if you played optimally, so you tend not to be satisfied. A good example of this is Proudmoore's ult in DOTA where he drops a ship. The ship hits the target a bit in the future, dealing a bunch of damage and some stun to enemies. Allies on the other hand get damage resistance and bonus move speed, but damage mitigated comes up later. Very complicated! And almost impossible to know if you have used it optimally -- do you really want your squishies getting into the AOE? Maybe! Maybe not... It's really hard to know that you've used this skill optimally and feel that you made a 'clutch' play, because it's so hard to tell, and there are so many considerations you have to make. On the other hand, with Ashe's skill shot, if you hit the guy who was weak and running, you know you did it right... You also know you did it right if you slowed their entire team... Ditto on Ezreal's skill shot."

And here's the skill change:
Agony's Embrace
Damage changed to 15/20/25% of the target's current health from 15/20/25% of their max health
Cooldown increased to 150/120/90 seconds from 120/90/60
Cast range reduced to 650 from 800

Riot obviously thought Agony's Embrace was not in the right place. That's fine. Numbers can be adjusted. But I argue that they clearly entered the realm of what they'd consider Game Design Anti-Patterns and here's why: Agony's Embrace used to be damage optimal at any point of a combo, and CC optimal after your opponent has Flashed (you slow them down so you can catch up). It has been changed to be damage optimal ONLY as an opening move (% current health, you are PUNISHED for using it when your opponent is low and it CANNOT finish off an opponent. As Eve is a stealth champion, if you are playing well, your opening move is very early in your opponent's possible awareness of you. This means that they are likely to flash after you've used it, if you used it damage-optimally. CC optimal, however, remains after the Flash.

Understanding this, the contradiction in utility should be obvious. If you initiate with Agony's Embrace, you deal the most damage, but your opponent will Flash, and you will not have that slow any longer. If you hold Agony's Embrace to help counter the inevitable Flash, you will suffer damage proportional to the amount of damage you dealt while holding the CC. This CLEARLY falls under "contrary effects" and dissatisfaction from not being able to use the ability optimally.

I am not opposing a nerf to the old manifestation of the ability. I am pointing out that the change made is intrinsically problematic.

A few points: Flash CD is roughly once per teamfight in active games. Talon. Shaco. Akali. These assassins (and many others) have mechanics that can mitigate a Flash. For Eve, that's W and R. Assassins benefit from this. It's a defining aspect of the role. You can Flash to counter Flash, but for an assassin, that's not ideal. Eve is given a devil's choice in her current "ultimate," which I used to be able to honestly type without using quotation marks.

TLDR?

You are now being punished too severely if you do not use the ultimate at the absolute start of the team fight. Moreover, if you use it after the team fight in order to catch up the damage portion of the ultimate is utterly wasted and thus the skill has not been used optimally.

End Summary

I understand all you elitists out there believe that Evelynn is just fine and other such hogwash because of how pro you are. However, remember, how a champ is played is not supposed to be restricted to a singular style and a singular kind of build. Before the nerf, going AP Evelynn was common because her ultimate dealt significant damage. Now, if you build AP Evelynn you are losing out on her "buffed" hate spike and the fact that the AP damage does nothing for your Ult.

Now some here would say that building hybrid is the way to go and is the way it always should have been. "Should Have" is not a basis to change the play style of those who actually took the time to learn another way to play and have enjoyed doing so.


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Nouvas

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Junior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzen View Post
It just means ppl that were just nuking and not playing eve the way she is suppose to be played are suffering because they can't adapt.
This is more harsh than necessary. The problem here is a matter of style of play. You wish to play Evelynn hybrid, that is your business. Do not force the rest of us who enjoy playing her AP to do the same because that is your preference.


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C2K123

Senior Member

01-17-2013

I don't agree with the hate spike nerf, since its her damage. Even before the nerf, without blue, you can experience mana issues. But she is still a good assassin.


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duoh

Junior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonheath291 View Post
Except you initate with the only CC you have, they flash away and even WITH your W you can't catch them. Or you initiate a team fight and get piled. It's worthless now. Problem NOT ****ing solved. You're welcome.

Initiating as an assassin.......riot troll best troll. Here is what happens. Eve initiates, Eve gets blown up.


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Killevra

Junior Member

01-17-2013

riot i hate you for this. why would she need any nerf? what about darius he can alt people in to oblivion as many times as he has mana for eve is so easy to kill all she had was that she could catch you slipping. now she can poke some one at low helth they turn and kill you every time. i just wanted to take a min to say you guys suck big black fat ones for these changes


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Basil Ali

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Can anyone explain to me why making it current health instead of max health made her ultimate useless? Her ultimate could be used as a great initiation, especially with the slows. So, I don't see how that's making her useless... maybe Riot wants us to use Evelyn as an initiator and not steal kills with ult. :X Hell, who knows? All I know is, she's not completely useless. There is always a way!


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alcibiades5410

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonheath291 View Post
Except you initate with the only CC you have, they flash away and even WITH your W you can't catch them. Or you initiate a team fight and get piled. It's worthless now. Problem NOT ****ing solved. You're welcome.
If you still can't catch then with your W then you're playing Eve wrong, and if you initiate with Eve you're playing her even wronger.


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Irish Red Cap

Senior Member

01-17-2013

I've seen people complain about how other assassin's are outperforming Eve now. REALLY? I mean I get it your favorite assassin can't run in throw down a nuke and ruin 3 people anymore. That's not how Assassins are supposed to work. They take out a single target and clean up if possible or get punished for making stupid mistakes.

You think other assassins have a distinct edge over Eve since the nerf? She still does dmg if played right as all champions do. She has easily the best assassin passive in the game. Akali, Shaco, Talon they will be seen trying to get close, or in shaco's case with deceive he gets 1 good hit but the deceive must avoid ALL wards and you can see the animation for deceive if he is to close. Akali and Talon, they are visible NON-stop while trying to gank other lanes. Place a ward far enough out and you can easily get away from them.

Eve forces all lanes to burn 50g more everytime they want to ward because if you don't buy pinks she can run around the lane figuring out the best position to gank. Have a problem with people flashing after you ult, get between them and their tower before you ult. Most people instinctively flash back to the tower if your standing right where they will flash bad news for them. She can move between lanes easier than any assassin, she is the hardest to keep track of if she leaves a lane. Quit *****ing about a nerf because the pewpew easy champ was ruined thanks to pro's showing that she could 1v3 and destroy people.


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KnightHunters

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Junior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteHatCracker View Post
Eve forces all lanes to burn 50g more everytime they want to ward because if you don't buy pinks she can run around the lane figuring out the best position to gank.
so what your saying is that your to cheap to buy a pink ward like your supposed to. pink wards are there for a reason, to unstealth the stealth.


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