@RiotNome Wave Respawn System and Nexus health mechanics encourages bad play.

First Riot Post
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Blizzmaster

Senior Member

01-15-2013

I'd be on board with a change like this. With a faster game mode like Dominion, I hate being punished for dying when I'm winning with a longer death timer. The discrepancy needs to go down somehow, but I'd do it simply by decreasing the losing team's death timers by some amount and leaving the winning team's death timers alone. Give the losing team some advantage if you need to, but don't punish the winning team.


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IDontWasteFood

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Oh man agree 100%.


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Bma

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Senior Member

01-15-2013

This is also a contributing factor to why the top 5 OPs are as strong as they are.

You can vastly outplay them in early game, but when it comes to late game you have no chance when they have incredibly low cooldowns and respawn timers. Mostly my phrase 'only ops can kill ops', referring to the whole if one team has one or more cheesecake vs 0, they are going to win, unless the cheesecake player is clearly trash.

And more on topic, I think these respawn timers are 100% intended, and I wouldn't expect to see a change anytime soon. They can change it to make us happy, but at the end of the day a majority of the community (people not on this forum) loves big comebacks.


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hotfire

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Agreed with op. It might be fun to get the lightening bolt from last place in Mario kart, but its too much here.

Personally, I'd like respawn rubber banding eliminated, and gold income from kills and assists decreased. Possibly shifted some to passive income.


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FDru

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaIfhearted View Post
Yeah, I have both won and lost games based solely on overwhelming respawns lategame.

I'm fine with wave respawns, but the comeback mechanics need to go, or at least turn off if the teams are within 100-150 points of each other, which they currently do not.
Disagree completely. The wave respawn is asinine, the comeback mechanic is perfectly fine (well, if it kicked in at a wider point difference that is, but it's okay otherwise).

The problem here seems to be that the respawn difference is bigger than it's supposed to be (which is +2/-2). Has anyone confirmed this is actually happening? I would have done it already if I wasn't stuck in cali using my family's ****ty Macs.


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Wawix

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Senior Member

01-15-2013

LOL@this sifucalvin guy, always whining.


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AgaresOaks

Member

01-15-2013

I personally think the only reason people don't like the respawn wave and respawn timer mechanics is because they don't play with them in mind. Ever. I mean, it's part of the game state. It's like playing not knowing what champ you are or playing not knowing what the current node split is. That's just... patently silly.

Now, obviously, for the vast majority of players, like, functionally the mechanics don't matter. There's so many other ways for you to improve your play that exploiting the edges those mechanics give you really doesn't matter.

The question of respawn waves is whether you want a frontloaded edge or a backloaded edge. (ie. if you want to make a big push, does everyone need to move out at the same that the first guy that died or the last guy that died?) Functionally they're not horribly different one's just 12 seconds slower than the other. The frontloaded edge (respawn waves) gives the opportunity to turn it into a backloaded edge by delaying a kill. The backloaded edge opens up a bunch of small timings in which you can do stuff (it's about 3-4 second timings or so).

The question of respawn timers I personally believe is just not explored. I don't think I've seen a team that's vastly ahead just play SO conservatively to point of saying "okay, you can have the point now, but we're going to poke the **** out of you now to get a positional advntage because we have a 300+ point lead". I mean, that's just basic gameplay. If you have material and you need position to win, you should leverage your material to get position. If you have position and need material to win, you need to find a way to leverage your position to get material.

There's also this seemingly underlying feeling that if you outplay someone really hard, you should beat them by a large number of points, which is just plain... wrong? I mean, look at it this way. Player A consistently wins 70% of his games by just one point and loses 30% of his games by 400 points. Player B consistently loses 70% of his games by only one point and wins 30% of his games by 400 points. Who's the more dominating player? If you go by points, B, but I bet you that anyone here would rather be player A.

In MTG this is called "win-more". In SC you might've heard it referred to as "if you're ahead, get more ahead" (though the concept applies differently here because of the game mechanics) or perhaps if you're older you'll have read Day9's article on the marginal advantage.

Like, it shouldn't be until people are doing continuously doing patently stupid things like doing a suicidal 2-for-1 to open up a 10 second timing to exploit that you should be asking for the mechanics to be changed. (and even then, that might just be how the game gets played)


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Kraogg

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Member

01-16-2013

So Dominion gets no ranked and the biggest changes we see for over a year is a few new items and small changes to old ones. One would think problems players bring to light would be heard and worked on, But this is Dominion we are lucky to get one word from riot about anything. Maybe we should all start spamming Riots player support get some action from guys lower on the riot food chain when the bosses come knocking.


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Snoop Nome

Game Designer

01-16-2013
1 of 1 Riot Posts

This is on the long-term projects radar. It's definitely a fairly subtle mechanic given how impactful it is.


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nguyenmb

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Member

01-16-2013

To the OP, are you sure it's not +2/-2? I recall a patch changing it to +2/-2 at most.

Death timer reduced by 25% can shave off 6-7 seconds, and with a 12 second respawn timer window, can shave off up to an additional 12 seconds of your death.