@Riot: Why does the new league system hide our Elo/MMR from us?

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Awaen

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Senior Member

01-15-2013

Not when you have a league/division. That's your "I'm ranked and this is approximately where I am".


Elo is used as a 'prediction of who will win'. League/Division placement is "This is my rating in the game".


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iainB85

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Ryedan! Can you answer this?

Ok, so if all the following are true (which they seem to be from what I've read);

- Once you obtain a league (bronze, silver, gold, etc) you cannot lose it for the rest of the season.

- Elo is still there, and it's what actually determines match making still, not your current league

So my question is this:

What if I obtain gold league division I then proceed to lose 30 games strait. Will this still decrease my elo even though my "league points" don't go down at all?

IF SO, if I start winning again, wouldn't this make moving up in the gold league way easier because I tanked my elo to begin with and are being matched up against lower rated players while still being in the gold league?


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Johnnie5DubV

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryedan View Post
It's because the granularity of the numbers doesn't really mean that much. Someone 30 Elo below you doesn't exactly perform "30 Elo worse" than you. The reality is, you tend to fluctuate in rating, so at any given point there's a large pool of people roughly as skilled as you. Now we simply declare that pool openly, while still relying on the very granular metrics (behind the scenes) to give you guys the best matches we can.

Getting tied up in the specific number doesn't seem to give any positives, except in the highest points of the ladder (which we've addressed).
Then give elo as a numerical range instead of some undefined tier and division... or let only the person see their own elo. At least i can attempt to understand the numerical range of my skill. It gives no advantage that i can see as you will still be relying on this granular metric to match me. I want to at least be able to see my own metric and how it changes over time as opposed to a tier in a league which has absolutely no meaning at all other than that i was randomly placed in it.


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Talisid

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Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryedan View Post
So, consider "League points' your new metric? For you, the system should actually be easier to see tighter gains.
But realistically all you're doing is covering your Elo rating with league points.

League points don't even influence matchmaking, so why do they even exist?


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Chris Green

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryedan View Post
It's because the granularity of the numbers doesn't really mean that much. Someone 30 Elo below you doesn't exactly perform "30 Elo worse" than you. The reality is, you tend to fluctuate in rating, so at any given point there's a large pool of people roughly as skilled as you. Now we simply declare that pool openly, while still relying on the very granular metrics (behind the scenes) to give you guys the best matches we can.

Getting tied up in the specific number doesn't seem to give any positives, except in the highest points of the ladder (which we've addressed).

hey riot i hope you read this. your ruining your game by babying it. way to go.


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Talisid

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01-15-2013

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Originally Posted by Ryedan View Post
I hope you do! One of the many goals of change was to get people off the sidelines and into the game. Being approachable and being seriously competitive aren't opposite sides of the same coin.
Maybe I'm just particularly cynical in that I don't see the point of covering one rating with another, illusionary, rating. The new system is identical to the old, there's just a fancy coat of paint over the top of it.

Matchmaking is 100% unchanged, you just can't really see where you stand anymore because there's this veil of vagueness surrounding your actual placement.


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Jamvert

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Even if there is the new divisions, I wish they could at least show us the hidden matchmaking values along side our division and stuff.

I hate the whole hidden matchmaking thing. It makes it seem like the tier and division are kinda fake, since they don't actually affect your match making.


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ValiantValor

Senior Member

01-15-2013

How is Pick order Determined?


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ThaDean

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Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryedan View Post
So, consider "League points' your new metric? For you, the system should actually be easier to see tighter gains.
ELO in most games is an objectively quantifiable level of skill.

What if I don't want to know how good I am relative to people of my skill level, e.g., division, but how good I am relative to my brother in platinum? If I can't look at ELO, how am I supposed to know how far I have to go to seriously be considered good at the game?


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greywolf00

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Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryedan View Post
I hope you do! One of the many goals of change was to get people off the sidelines and into the game. Being approachable and being seriously competitive aren't opposite sides of the same coin.
I think one of the biggest reasons people don't play ranked is the toxic community that does. Lyte has said elsewhere the tribunal has had little effect on toxic players in ranked.


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