I may watch the news too much...

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Light LaserTower

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Having you guys so close to us is literally killing us....


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Worstcase

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Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by vcadoda View Post
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/oct/10/world-murder-rate-unodc
average homicide rate per 100k people
was:
.5 for Japan (2008)
.8 for Germany (2010)
1.1 for China (2008)
1.2 for UK (2009)
1.8 for Canada (2009)
2 for Iraq (2008)
5 for US (2009)
18.1 for Mexico (2010)

So US is still beating UK in homicides
You're like 15 minutes behind everybody else. Largely because you didn't read my post correctly, and didn't bother to read the reiteration one either.


I'm still waiting on two of my questions to be addressed. Without either of them being addressed, continued discussion is not worthwhile as it would imply intentionally evading questions.


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vcadoda

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Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worstcase View Post
You're like 15 minutes behind everybody else. Largely because you didn't read my post correctly, and didn't bother to read the reiteration one either.


I'm still waiting on two of my questions to be addressed. Without either of them being addressed, continued discussion is not worthwhile as it would imply intentionally evading questions.
I am simply pointing out your fallacy in saying banning guns will lead to a similar in quantity of homicides due to knives.

It would be great to find remedies, however with the current political system in the US many of you seem to be fairly against any discussion considering methods to reduce gun violence by looking at guns. If there were an incredibly large quantity of car wrecks, do we simply go "that must be the crazy person so we should not consider how to improve the car"?

Sure modifying guns may not be the answer, but your nation will never know unless you choose to focus on applying science to find reasons behind gun violence.


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Bilbosky

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirtl0l View Post
Overall murder rate per 100,000 people in the US is 4x higher than the UK.

You are extremely troll to troll.
The UK's violent crime rate is roughly 5x higher than that of the US. Both statistics are irrelevant because they don't establish any sort of trend over time resulting from gun legislation, and both the US and the UK have different demographics.


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lukertin

Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbosky View Post
The UK's violent crime rate is roughly 5x higher than that of the US. Both statistics are irrelevant because they don't establish any sort of trend over time resulting from gun legislation, and both the US and the UK have different demographics.
Quoting facts to an idiot like shirt who doesn't understand how to make statistical conclusions won't get you anywhere


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Hitsuguya42

Member

01-15-2013

So what is your proposal? Take away all the guns? Seeing as how the criminals will not give up their guns this will only make things worse. A disarmed society is at the mercy of the armed criminals. By your reasoning we should just give up everything we own and all of our money. After all it is just stuff and you can always get more later.

What happens when someone wants to kill or rape you? Or a family member? What happens when a simple robbery where they want your stuff turns violent? They may not like that you have so little money or nothing valuable, or it simply wasn't enough.

You could be just walking to your car and get on the wrong end of a gun or a knife. You have no idea what these people are thinking. They may just want your stuff like you said. They may want to rob you and then put a bullet in you just because they can.

You can't act like you know the motives behind criminals or the mentally ill. They may not have ANY reason to be doing what they are. Should someone point a gun at me or hold me up at knife point they had better be prepared to use it. I know I won't hesitate if I FEEL THAT MY LIFE IS IN DANGER I will use deadly force.


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Shirtl0l

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
So what is your proposal? Take away all the guns? Seeing as how the criminals will not give up their guns this will only make things worse. A disarmed society is at the mercy of the armed criminals. By your reasoning we should just give up everything we own and all of our money. After all it is just stuff and you can always get more later.
If a criminal chooses to steal your stuff from your house you think the criminals not knowing if you have a gun is going to stop him? Any reasonable thief would wait until you're out of the house regardless. They're not typically out to hurt people, give them a little credit. They are people like you and I, desperate for possessions.

Quote:
What happens when someone wants to kill or rape you? Or a family member? What happens when a simple robbery where they want your stuff turns violent? They may not like that you have so little money or nothing valuable, or it simply wasn't enough.
Again people do not just barge in your front door in the middle of the day and yell "HEY, I'M HERE TO RAPE YOU... SO... WHERE ARE YOU?" to give you the time to get your gun out of your cabinet. If you are chosen to get raped or stolen from it's not going to be so obvious.

Quote:
You could be just walking to your car and get on the wrong end of a gun or a knife. You have no idea what these people are thinking. They may just want your stuff like you said. They may want to rob you and then put a bullet in you just because they can.
Yes, and they very well can, but it just doesn't happen like that. If you yourself stay out of trouble you're not likely to be sought out to be murdered... you would have to do something really messed up to cause someone to want to do that to you. And if the person is mentally ill, well, in either case you're almost surely to be taken by surprise.

Quote:
You can't act like you know the motives behind criminals or the mentally ill. They may not have ANY reason to be doing what they are. Should someone point a gun at me or hold me up at knife point they had better be prepared to use it. I know I won't hesitate if I FEEL THAT MY LIFE IS IN DANGER I will use deadly force.
And you must understand that not everyone can be trusted with the jurisdiction of using deadly force with deadly weapons, even police screw it up. It is getting progressively worse. To sell the general public weapons ANYWAY is unreasonable.

If you are in a situation where you felt you had to use your gun you almost certainly sought it out in one way or another. And a life could have been spared if it hadn't been for the gun handlers clouded judgement.


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Shirtl0l

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbosky View Post
The UK's violent crime rate is roughly 5x higher than that of the US. Both statistics are irrelevant because they don't establish any sort of trend over time resulting from gun legislation, and both the US and the UK have different demographics.
The UK's crime rate is only 25% higher than US but they still manage to keep homicides to 1/4 of the US, you're only helping my cause.

The UK's high crime rate is largely due to their drug offense rate being 326x higher than our own, which are nonviolent crimes without victims.

Many people debating here do not know their statistics and seem to throw them out like vomit. Not that I expect anything more from pro-gun pro-violence potato heads.


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poe tay toes

Senior Member

01-15-2013

what on earth are you rambling about? you keep saying these things don't happen. they do. there was a story in the news just a week ago about some woman who herded her kids into the attic when someone broke in, he kept looking for them, and she shot him five times when he entered the attic. there was a girl in october who shot an intruder. this kind of thing does happen, it can happen anywhere and it can happen to anyone. we just don't think about it and don't think it'll be us. how many news reports have you seen where a victim says "i just didn't think this could ever happen to me"

as to the awful terror of letting the general public weapons, just how often do you think the average person pulls their gun on someone? i'd trust my neighbor with a gun over a cop i've never met. i'd trust a neighbor to come to my aid sooner. i'd trust a neighbor to care more for my well being.

sought out a situation where i had to use my gun? where are you pulling these assumptions from? why aren't you putting the blame on the people committing the crime that gets them shot? if i shoot someone who breaks into my home, are you saying i lured him in so i could do it? if someone pulls a knife on me in a parking garage, did i go there hoping i'd encounter a mugger? a life could have been spared if the criminal hadn't made a conscious decision to put someone else in a life threatening situation. don't blame the person who was minding their own business.


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c4lm

Member

01-15-2013

I always forget how prevalent gun culture is in the US. We have some bleeding heart gun advocates in here.