@Lyte @Riot Toxic players at all time high

First Riot Post
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Yashimasta

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Senior Member

01-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerocaliber View Post
Honestly, players who leave games in ranked should be banned for a week for the first offense. If a player is reported enough in ranked games, they should be eliminated for the entire season.
That would help from a negative reinforcement standpoint. Any ideas for positive reinforcement?


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Auspexa

Member

01-14-2013

I'm going to write a wall of text again but I know Lyte and Pendragon will ignore it, refusing to admit how horrible their current system is. I have almost 5000 games played total on all of my accounts, I play only ranked games since 2010 and although they keep saying that player behavior has improved a lot, it's the same if not worse, I can feel that on every single game I play.

You need much more improvements.

1. Warnings about reports, something like report notification or at least "you've been getting reported a lot recently, we suggest you to improve your behavior if you don't want to end up in Tribunal". Even an e-mail about that would be fine. Can you even imagine how many bans this would prevent?

2. Punishment meter on Tribunal. You want to punish that guy but do you even know how long he will get banned? What if he's at the edge of getting a permaban? Would you still punish him if you knew his next ban is going to be permanent? In my opinion not every kind of offense should have the same weight, same effect. This would help punishing extremely offensive players with longer suspensions quickly. I mean, is it really necessary to warn someone who uses exceedingly racial slurs or is it better if he gets 1 month ban right away?

3. Rescaling of existing temporary ban durations, I suggested that like 500 times. 14 days suspension is the longest temporary ban, there's no balance between ban durations. Temporary bans should exist to stop people from acting like scumbags. Riot stated that most people don't end up in Tribunal again after they receive a warning, if that's true increasing the duration of temporary suspensions shouldn't affect most people and they should be more effective on people that insist on spreading negativity.

4. Ignore function shouldn't remove pings. There's already a system to prevent ping spam abuse. I don't want to ignore flamers just because of that. Then it starts the flame wars. When I ignore people it makes me lose. Jungler pinging dragon trying to say that it's gonna spawn in 15 seconds? NP bro I ignored you I don't even have a clue about it. It doesn't even make sense that ignore also ignores pings.

5. Tribunal cases shouldn't have 1-2 games. That's ridiculous. It should be minimum 4-5 games. Do you really think it's appropriate to judge someone by 2 games while he plays 10 games everyday? I've seen permabanned cases with only one game including my own case. It's nothing but funny.

I'll add some points when I remember


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Failcomplete

Member

01-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auspexa View Post
6, 7, 8, 9? He's only exaggerating. I received 4 bans on my first permabanned account, 3 bans on second permabanned account. And no, there's no way they can stop me from playing. I have dynamic IP, I know how to spoof MAC and I know how to hack into my router via Telnet port. They won't implement such a thing.
I think you missed the point of my post. If they had something you couldn't work around they would already have used it. Until then they will just give players a reason to quit, and hope they leave (Pendragon indicated that some players actually leave for good).

Also, "only 4 bans"? That's more than enough of a chance to reform.


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Snowpoint

Member

01-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
However, if you are playing Ranked Solo/Duo Queue, it's unfortunately still about as toxic as it used to be 8-10 months ago. We recognize that very few of our player behavior solutions have targeted Ranked Solo/Duo Queue specifically thus far, but we hope to make some improvements in this space in 2013.
5 months ago, you banned a massive wave of mainly ranked players for 'excessive reporting'. Along with that you stated that it was merely 0.2% of the total community. As a new ranked player, I saw and reported all of the swearing, intentional game throwing, and other bad behavior I saw and got a week long ban as a thank you.

We warned you then that all it would do is discourage future reporting, and ranked remains as toxic as ever.

Today alone I got to lose a wonderful match because after our Ezreal died bot lane, the support got a double kill so the Ezreal just walked around inside the main base the remainder of the match until we could surrender. Just a few games before I got to lose because a guy decided to go for a snack break mid-game for 5 or so minutes and then he proceeded to swear at and insult the team for being beaten badly in the 4v5 they created. The saddest part, this stuff isn't even uncommon anymore.

One of my favorite moves you made was to by default disable /all chat in match-made games. I left it off and have been quite happy with that change. If an ally starts insulting me or my allies, I can quickly mute them and keep playing (and still win many of those games). In contrast leavers/quitters/throwers disrupt the entire structure of the ELO system and further frustrate ranked players.

My suggestion: The issues of player anger is still best left to the current banning system, but cases of players intentionally throwing or leaving games should get ELO penalties in addition to any time ban.


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Fomorian27

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Recruiter

01-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Unskilled Reports aren't used in the Tribunal, but are aggregated for matchmaking analyses and adjustments.

We never want to ban a player for Unskilled Play because that makes no sense--everyone has bad games once in awhile, and League of Legends is for every player regardless of them being 500 Elo or 2000 Elo. If a player gets a lot of Unskilled Player reports (above the norm), then we need to figure out what went wrong in the matchmaking that the player got put into the wrong bracket and improve that.

Interesting, I never realized that there was a "right" time to use unskilled player report. I never used it because I assumed it was for ragers to vent about their team, but I genuinely had a situation once where I was paired with a duo q that was clearly not meant to be at the level we were playing at (1400). One went kat bot with the adc and complained that adc was taking all the cs, and the other went garen jungle and started blue. After asking them about it, it turned out they were playing their placement matches.


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Auspexa

Member

01-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Failcomplete View Post
I think you missed the point of my post. If they had something you couldn't work around they would already have used it. Until then they will just give players a reason to quit, and hope they leave (Pendragon indicated that some players actually leave for good).

Also, "only 4 bans"? That's more than enough of a chance to reform.
I'm sure Lyte knows lots of stuff about psychology and he should have known that nobody's gonna reform because of a one week ban because that's ridiculously short compared to 250 years ban it won't make people think "I couldn't play for 1 week I regret my actions I should change my behavior". I addressed that problem on given thread and also here. Need longer temporary bans to fix repeat offenders.


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Magni

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Senior Member

01-14-2013

As a normal-mode player, I'd say toxicity has decreased. There is still room for improvement but things are headed in the right direction.


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Catonmars

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Senior Member

01-14-2013

At some point riot is going to have to admit to themselves that ranked toxicity isn't going to change until they input something in the pick screen. It's exceedingly obvious from the get-go who that guy is going to be. Questioning everyone's picks, complaining that shen or whoever isn't banned, nitpicking summoners, and there is always that guy. Until they can be voted off by a 4 man from their team and punished accordingly, it's going to be business as usual because everyone will still be forced to play with them even when it becomes obvious they're going to make the game miserable.


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DarkChibiman

Senior Member

01-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auspexa View Post
I agree. Report function creates the toxicity itself.
I disagree that the report function creates toxicity - however, I do feel that allowing people to report unskilled players feeds the sense of "it is wrong to be unskilled". It's perfectly okay to be unskilled or have a bad day;

Lyte mentions that it is only aggregated by matchmaking, but I bet not many players know that - so they see "Report for Unskilled Player" as feeding the abusive player's notion of "Oh, its wrong and bad to be unskilled, so I should report them for doing something wrong".

People do not should in all-chat "REPORT FOR UNSKILLED" because they want the player to be properly match-made - they want to be abusive and they want the player Punished somehow.


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Salenar

Senior Member

01-14-2013

@Lyte,

For me the number one most frustarting thing playing ranked is that when I get a leaver on my team (or an intentionally feeder/AFK or anything like that) that makes that game impossible to win I get very frustrated that I lose ELO becuase of it. I don't play ranked often so when this happens it is a big deal to me becuase it will take that much longer to get ahead.

Is there a way or any plans to help this? Like if four at of the five members of your team report for AFK or intentional feeding that the loss could be forgiven?

Edit: Maybe not the 4 of 5 report thing, but just something that makes players who get stuck with leavers ect. not being punished with ELO loss.