Disable Chat for Tribunal Offenders instead of Bans

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Kirska

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoinTBlanK86 View Post
Ah, but the fact of the matter is they say they want the COMMUNITY to be the judges, yet they do not allow the community to judge what is actually worth and unworthy of punishment. They set their own guideline which they expect every Tribunal 'judger' to have, which is 'punish punish punish' no matter how slight or minuscule the incident. No matter if the person that reported them reports someone in almost EVERY single game they are in, no matter if the person was clearly the victim from the beginning. The Tribunal is a system of judgement, yes. It clearly is a not a system of any form of mercy or expecting integrity from players that berate other players.
How dare someone be judged by an anonymous group of their peers? A system like that surely could never work in real life.


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PoinTBlanK86

Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirska View Post
The only thing your case shows is that you're a toxic player that deserved to be banned.

Further the only things your posts show is that you're someone who refuses to take responsibility for your own actions.
Kirska, you have made everyone fully aware that you have such a closed minded view. I'm also sorry for the fact that you are the type of person that tells people that they are wrong or something that has happened isn't right, yet you can't even give an explanation why you're 'way' is better, because as it stands in this thread that you have high jacked, for one of your 'this 'kid' has been banned, ignore every word he says'' tantrums, the person who started this thread actually supported his case, and gave clear cut examples of how it would improve the egregious system that you seem to have an insatiable love of being able to punish everyone with. Troll along somewhere else please, there's plenty of other bridges for you to set up camp at.


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PoinTBlanK86

Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirska View Post
How dare someone be judged by an anonymous group of their peers? A system like that surely could never work in real life.
I know Right? You forgot the fact that the system that does operate in real life has a process you have to go through before you are 'approved' as a person who can be on the jury. Once again, troll along somewhere else.


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PoinTBlanK86

Member

01-10-2013

The clear fact that I have presented MULTIPLE points of weakness in the current system and you have no rebuttal besides basically saying, 'you've been banned, I won't listen to you, I'm putting my fingers in my ear holes.... LALALALALAALA not listeninggggggg.', is a clear cut case of who really doesn't have any thing to contribute to making this 'community' better.


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Getsuei

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoinTBlanK86 View Post
The clear fact that I have presented MULTIPLE points of weakness in the current system and you have no rebuttal besides basically saying, 'you've been banned, I won't listen to you, I'm putting my fingers in my ear holes.... LALALALALAALA not listeninggggggg.', is a clear cut case of who really doesn't have any thing to contribute to making this 'community' better.
Care to list a few of them? The only one I can see is this:

Quote:
The community and tribunal system on this is a joke compared to how it was on Warcraft 3. All they had were bots to run a channel and they had APPROVED people review games. NOT just chat logs, and remove the REAL trolls. Not just clicking Punish Punish Punish on any 'case' that one person could have an OPINION that they were 'negative'. If you were a person being harassed by players all game and got upset, they would NEVER punish you for being verbally abused by others and trying to defend yourself.
My argument to this: Riot thinks the community should judge what is and is not acceptable. When the majority of the community thinks that what you did was wrong and is punish worhty, then it was not just one person.

Can you link some more so I can see if I can refute them or /bow my head at somethings that I can not answer?

Edit: Found another one:

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoinTBlanK86 View Post
Adapting to specific terms that are expected isn't going to be the same amount of time for each person..... And honestly it is harsh. This is the harshest punishment system I have ever seen, heard of, or encountered in ANY game. "Don't be a jerk to others, that's basically it" doesn't cover it. You better not even speak in chat, and you surely better do at least decent and not have even one bad game where you are more than 0/3 because a random person who is trying to farm IP from the Tribunal is surely going to press that Punish button, as they do so every few minutes without even looking at cases.
You failed to research it, since the Tribunal quit rewarding IP awhile ago. And adapting to specific terms is what you do in every game that you have to accept a EULA, ToS, etc. Why is this one different? The other spam punish is a feeling you have, rather than a fact, so I will ignore that.


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Filthy Meadows

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisD˙cklingG˙y View Post
When 90+ percent of the tribunal cases are strictly about language related issues, I think you need to use your brain Riot and just add a feature that permanently mutes accounts with issues sent to the tribunal. I just finished reviewing 20 cases and every single one was language related.

Instead of banning people you need to change what player have access to certain chat features. This would a) remove almost all need for tribunal and b) improve in game play. Which the tribunal does not. If you remove a summoner they just remake on another account with the same issues... This chat feature would actually change things.

Not everyone is the same. In fact most humans think differently depending on the individual. So you need more than a one size fits all model.

Last I would suggest you still allow people at max chat ban to still issues a certain amount of pings and indicators. Anyway a model like this would correct play instead of just force it onto other accounts where most people might actually be more malicious.



If they implemented this you would not get banned, the tribunal would be revamped and most likely taken back to a company based decision and not automated.



They have a mute function. So I'm not sure what you're getting at. By that same argument the person who muted the other person should also be banned for not communicating.



The issue is if it truly is an issue where the liability is based on your decision to mute someone there should not be an option after the game to punish based on language. I have long discussed this issue about language liability.



As I stated they would have options for a spectrum of disabled features and limits. Mia features, pings, target pings, and retreat pings would very likely never be disabled.



To the first part I would just like to say the rest of the team would not suffer, more than likely you would focus on the game more so as well never know there was a chat disable on the person at all. Many games I play people do not type in chat for the duration of the game and my game experience is not effected in a negative fashion.

The second part about pushing them less "Is True". Most times when a person commits a wrong doing or foul both in life or in a game it could have been prevent by better organization or measures. What I am suggesting is one of many measures that could be in play to greatly reduce negative environments on all players.



I would like to highlight this comment because it is one of the main reasons this should be implemented. The better off with out them is both a narrow minded view but more so you would be incorrect at thinking they have left the game. People will always find ways to comeback to a game. Especially if it is free accounts. So why not address the source, improve their (the offenders) environment so they do not harm others and potentially change. People can have a lot invested into any game or object and when you take it away it is the same scenario as backing a dog into a corner of giving a person nothing to lose. Eventually you will get bit.
yes


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Getsuei

Senior Member

01-10-2013

I found some more =)

Quote:
. You are in control of your own behavior, but does riot not take into account the fact of what other players are doing at all? There are two sides to this coin. What other people do IS relevant. Here's a hypothetical situation for you. In real life, if you are being continually harassed by a specific person? No, you are going to defend yourself and then report them to the authorities, who you hope aren't going to let blatant culprits get away through their judicial process(yes, that is a small shot at The Tribunal setup.).
How you defend yourself depends on this matter. In this case, you should mute them(thereby removing any harrassment the individual can do to you) and report them afterword(which is the same thing as notifying the police.) How can it get any clearer then this?

Quote:
. You act like muting people resolves everything. It doesn't. I have had games where I have warned people if they don't stop I'm going to mute them, and they continue so I mute them. So they move to harassing you through their in-game actions, which Riot doesn't review AT ALL in The Tribunal. I have had players who have followed me intentionally for the rest of the game and grab last hits on CS and in the jungle and try to take every champion kill from you on purpose. Yes, you can report them at the end of the game, but what happens when they report you back?(and especially if they have a duo partner or other teammates in the game and they report you too?) You get punished as well whether there is something in the chat that proves you did something wrong or not. In my last Case I had a game where I played as Sivir and our Lee Sin after harassing me continually, was muted. So he takes to following me the whole game and intentionally taking all of my cs and champ kills no what where I went, he followed. Riot does NOT take into account the fact that YOUR gameplay experience is getting ruined when people do what they are doing as well.
You report them, continue to play the game and you do not respond to thier bait. It really is as plain and simple as that Do you think making the situation more toxic or negative or starting a fight, will make it any better?


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PoinTBlanK86

Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Getsuei View Post
Care to list a few of them? The only one I can see is this:



My argument to this: Riot thinks the community should judge what is and is not acceptable. When the majority of the community thinks that what you did was wrong and is punish worhty, then it was not just one person.

Can you link some more so I can see if I can refute them or /bow my head at somethings that I can not answer?

Edit: Found another one:



You failed to research it, since the Tribunal quit rewarding IP awhile ago. And adapting to specific terms is what you do in every game that you have to accept a EULA, ToS, etc. Why is this one different? The other spam punish is a feeling you have, rather than a fact, so I will ignore that.
They are all clearly listed in this thread. What you have said about Riot thinking the community should judge has already been presented, and I have already responded to how that is not the case. It's on page 4 of this thread. They don't let the community 'judge', they set very specific guidelines that you HAVE to judge by, and if you don't then they have a report that comes back that tells you that you aren't 'judging' (which is supposed to be up to you on what IS and ISN't punished....right?) correctly, and shows an accuracy report telling you how much you have supposedly judged 'wrongly' (notice, there is apparently a wrong way, even though it's supposed to be up to the community to make the decision.). So yes, I do have a problem with the current system that basically tells you the power has been given to the 'community' to make the choice, yet regulates and forces you to 'judge' how they want everything to be judged, which again, is 'punish punish punish' no matter how slight or minuscule the offense or they will take away your 'right' to judge cases altogether!! It's laughable that that they actually even try to uphold this and think that people don't see what they are doing!!

Also I did not fail to research it. I am going off of what the 'community' thinks. That is what I have heard from everyone in pregame lobbies, ingame, and in chat and so that is what I assumed to be the case. If I assume it to be the case, and other players assume it to be the case, then I assume most of your people judging on the Tribunal probably assume it to be the case too and still think they are getting rewarded with IP.
As for the EULA thing and agreeing to the T&C's, as I stated this is the only game I have ever been suspended or punished in. So, as I stated, it is different from every other game in how they try to manage and punish people and so, yes, there will be an extended amount of time it takes for people, including me, to learn that you just can't say anything in chat AT ALL.... and that if a teammate is being malicious, asking them to even stop, LET ALONE trying to get them to come to an understanding with you is not what you should do or you'll end up getting punished too.....So how is that for teamwork and community building? You have to learn that there IS a chat function, yet you BETTER NOT use it, for ANYTHING or you will end up getting punished. Sounds pretty ass backwards to me.


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Getsuei

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoinTBlanK86 View Post
They are all clearly listed in this thread. What you have said about Riot thinking the community should judge has already been presented, and I have already responded to how that is not the case. It's on page 4 of this thread. They don't let the community 'judge', they set very specific guidelines that you HAVE to judge by, and if you don't then they have a report that comes back that tells you that you aren't 'judging' (which is supposed to be up to you on what IS and ISN't punished....right?) correctly, and shows an accuracy report telling you how much you have supposedly judged 'wrongly' (notice, there is apparently a wrong way, even though it's supposed to be up to the community to make the decision.). So yes, I do have a problem with the current system that basically tells you the power has been given to the 'community' to make the choice, yet regulates and forces you to 'judge' how they want everything to be judged, which again, is 'punish punish punish' no matter how slight or minuscule the offense or they will take away your 'right' to judge cases altogether!! It's laughable that that they actually even try to uphold this and think that people don't see what they are doing!!
Of course they would have to give guidelines. Riot came up with the system/game, they run it, and they have the final say in it. And I have pardoned plenty of people, so have many others. Guess what, we still have voting rights. The type of argument you are giving, when Riot has stated what the rules are, is equivelent to someone breaking the law in the United States and using the excuse, but this is a free country.


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Getsuei

Senior Member

01-10-2013

Quote:
You said it yourself that defending yourself isn't a crime
Defending yourself against a crime, with a crime, is punishable.