Should the maximum camera zoom out be increased?

Yes! (Any additional reasoning?) 824 87.38%
No... (Why not?) 119 12.62%
Voters: 943. You may not vote on this poll

Camera zoom out is insufficient. Let me zoom out more? Reasoning included.

First Riot Post
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Carnagè

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Senior Member

01-07-2013

Yes. Something needs to be done. Whether it be allowing us to zoom out further or some other way of making the play field more even.

Sadly I don't see this being changed. Their have been hundreds (thousands?) of complaints about this very same thing.


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Stexe

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Adjudicator

01-07-2013

I'd say increase the zoom out a bit more... something like 10% (or another 2 or 3 notches on a mouse). In the beta you could edit a config file to zoom out as far as you wanted. This led to people zoomed SUPER far out so they could see everything -- although most people opted to only zoom out a little bit farther. I was somewhere on the "super far away" thing and it took me forever to get used to the default zoom when they locked it. Still was an interesting experience. The current zoom feels a bit close to me, but that could just be my bias from back in the day.


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Arcticfury

Senior Member

01-08-2013

Zooming out or going left to right instead of bottom left to top right would work. Basically Purple has the disadvantage, I usually don't mind unless I'm forced to play ADC, it's so freaking hard getting last hit and keeping aware of the opposing ADC.

I know that unlocking my screen would help, but it's still lopsided. Mini map awareness helps, but knowing that Ashe is in my lane is a lot different than aiming my Piltover Peacemaker at her. Depending on the lane you get anywhere from 5%-20% visual advantage as Blue. This needs addressed more quickly than balancing an unreleased champ.

Allowing 10-15% zoom out works as a temporary fix. Temporary because blue will gain just as much % view as purple, but the effect won't be the same % because at some point it doesn't matter. Left to right is probably the only true fix.


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Rogerh

Member

01-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
Counter-point: One player moves first and has an advantage/disadvantage because of that. I would not say chess is "equal" in the sense you mean.
Other than than who gets the first move, chess is equal on how you can move your pieces, the restrictions of movement defined by the squares and occupied squares, and most importantly, the ability to view where objects are and how they are moved.

Imagine we're playing chess, I'm blue, you're purple, the board is on the 3 feet long table, but it is closer to you by 1 foot, and we're not allowed to move our necks from being perpendicular from the table. You would have to move back, 2 feet, in order to see the board the same as me (blue). The 1 foot difference is an example for the HUD on league of legends, and how it affects one player more than the other.

I feel like the main point of the original post has been derailed, and probably misguided on what needs to be changed. let's look at the original post one more time.

Quote:
I have found that it is difficult to play champions with large spell ranges from the purple side, because my spell range is further away from my champion than I can see when fully zoomed out, on auto-lock camera that is. It is not much of a problem if you're on the blue team due to the camera angle and HUD, but on purple it makes using champs like Brand, Xerath, Lux, and Caitlyn more difficult. As such, it also makes it more difficult to lane against champs with large ranges when you can't see them.
Although being able to zoom out would fix the issue, it would have to be restricted to purple-side ONLY in order for it to be fair due to the HUD issue being in the way. However, zooming out more shouldn't be done.

I believe that the HUD placement is to blame and is the main issue of this topic. If the HUD wasn't placed the same way on purple side as it was on blue side, (say, inverted so its on the top side, or allow for 2 presets of customizable HUDS per player whenever they start a game to choose which they prefer) then you could would hear almost no one talk about purple side being at a disadvantage (other than the obvious double golem issue). I seriously feel like if you were able to move the HUD components that were on the bottom to some other part of the edge of the screen, that it would massively improve people's experiences on purple side.


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MrJatt

Junior Member

01-08-2013

It is quite disadvantageous playing on the purple side, I've played over 500 games, which i know compared to some is not much, but it is enough to see what a clear disadvantage playing on the purple team is.

Also, if zooming in/out option is available to all why would this present any disadvantage or advantage to anyone. It would level the playing filed though.

>Main concern is,

->Blue team has a much larger view of whats ahead of them which makes last hitting, aiming skill shots or planning in team fights in general easier.

->Purple side however has a smaller fraction of the view when moving "forward" from purple perspective.


>Of course everyone loves to point out, hey you don't have to play locked.
consider the following if that is your argument


->Riot makes locked default, and now I am accustomed to locked play style, and i play more comfortably with locked.

->Is league of Legends a game which dictates which camera angle I prefer to play with? if so this is absurd and a plain attempt to avoid making this simple change available.

>Other arguments that may arise

->I don't have to play League of legends,
--> I don't but i invested time & money in this game and I would like to see the option to change my camera angle.

->Use mini map for awareness
-->This is a red herring main concern is for purple to have equal view(vs blue) of what is ahead of them. And as I said before if everyone has this option it no longer favors one particular side, it is neutral.

MrJatt


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boourns

UI Designer

01-08-2013
8 of 18 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goguma XO View Post
All the red posts seem to suggest that Rioters are already set on what they think about this, and aren't ready to listen to anything otherwise. So it might be pointless to post about this, but I guess I will anyway.

I recently had to move from playing on a 21-inch 1680x1050 monitor to a 32-inch 1360x768 LCD TV. Differences in screen size was easy to adjust to in just a game or two. I've tried a few game of LoL on a 50-inch 1920x1080 TV at a friend's house and it wasn't a problem. The differences in field of view to due changes in resolution however, is all but insurmountable.

I've been playing with free camera since day 1 (doesn't everyone who's ever played DotA, or even just StarCraft?) so I've always been shifting the camera while I play throughout every single game. However, with a smaller field of view, free camera really doesn't help much. It's not ever the problem of whether I can see gankers or whatnot. I can hardly see all of myself, the minions I need to last-hit, and the lane opponent(s) who I need to harass/avoid all at the same time. In a static farming situation that might not be a problem, but no one really just stands there and farm.

Since dropping down to 1360x768, I have been unable to play mid or adc bot at all. I mostly try to get the jungler or support spot as much as possible due it being impossible to play mid or adc with the me+CS+enemy problem. It's usually not as bad at top because it's often melee vs melee and the action is clustered closer around the minion swarm.

I don't really want or need to see more of the field to have any kind of advantage or convenience. But I would really, really appreciate it if the field of view is at least pretty constant at every resolution. This is solely a playability issue that I would really like Riot to seriously consider.
You should attach some screenshots, because I'm looking at it right now in those two resolutions and you should actually see more of the map horizontally and the same vertically at 1360x768 when fully zoomed out. Pretty sure vertical field of view doesn't change when switching resolutions, if you can reproduce it changing that's a bug we would want to fix!


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boourns

UI Designer

01-08-2013
9 of 18 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogerh View Post
Other than than who gets the first move, chess is equal on how you can move your pieces, the restrictions of movement defined by the squares and occupied squares, and most importantly, the ability to view where objects are and how they are moved.

Imagine we're playing chess, I'm blue, you're purple, the board is on the 3 feet long table, but it is closer to you by 1 foot, and we're not allowed to move our necks from being perpendicular from the table. You would have to move back, 2 feet, in order to see the board the same as me (blue). The 1 foot difference is an example for the HUD on league of legends, and how it affects one player more than the other.

I feel like the main point of the original post has been derailed, and probably misguided on what needs to be changed. let's look at the original post one more time.



Although being able to zoom out would fix the issue, it would have to be restricted to purple-side ONLY in order for it to be fair due to the HUD issue being in the way. However, zooming out more shouldn't be done.

I believe that the HUD placement is to blame and is the main issue of this topic. If the HUD wasn't placed the same way on purple side as it was on blue side, (say, inverted so its on the top side, or allow for 2 presets of customizable HUDS per player whenever they start a game to choose which they prefer) then you could would hear almost no one talk about purple side being at a disadvantage (other than the obvious double golem issue). I seriously feel like if you were able to move the HUD components that were on the bottom to some other part of the edge of the screen, that it would massively improve people's experiences on purple side.
I don't think that the HUD is as big a problem as you believe it to be, and we have a HUD scale slider that lets you decrease the size as well. The camera angle and perspective have a much larger effect, which you can see if you look at how much of a skillshot indicator you can see above and below your champion. I would encourage people to read the extensive locked camera thread in this forum where there is an incredible amount of dialog about this issue.

Locked Camera Discussion Thread


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boourns

UI Designer

01-08-2013
10 of 18 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnagč View Post
Yes. Something needs to be done. Whether it be allowing us to zoom out further or some other way of making the play field more even.

Sadly I don't see this being changed. Their have been hundreds (thousands?) of complaints about this very same thing.
Unless you can convince Zileas that we should do this, it's unlikely to happen. :-S It was a pretty deliberate game design decision and a ton of stuff is designed and balanced around it (AA range, ability ranges, etc.).


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Carnagè

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Senior Member

01-08-2013

Seen some things about hud placement. Anyway of making it to where you can move each thing? Being on purple and being able to move minimap and the rest of the hud would be a great step in the right direction IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
Unless you can convince Zileas that we should do this, it's unlikely to happen. :-S It was a pretty deliberate game design decision and a ton of stuff is designed and balanced around it (AA range, ability ranges, etc.).
Making above change. Would it not help alleviate some of the complaints while not completely destroying the "deliberate game design decision"?


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ArlanKels

Senior Member

01-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by boourns View Post
Unless you can convince Zileas that we should do this, it's unlikely to happen. :-S It was a pretty deliberate game design decision and a ton of stuff is designed and balanced around it (AA range, ability ranges, etc.).
It makes sense with what they've done, but if a chunk of the playerbase can have a greater field of view than the other doesn't that create an imbalance, thus throwing the careful balancing out the window?