Is america a full democratic nation?

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Galdareth

Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerstoned View Post
The same people who complain about the US moving towards socialism, are also against a pre-reagan top marginal tax rate,
Well, I have to disagree with u, because I would not be opposed to that in the slightest. Far left people aren't the only ones who see things becoming socialistic.


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Galdareth

Member

01-04-2013

Socialism isn't all bad, don't get me wrong, but it has way more downsides than upsides.


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Galdareth

Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by standin View Post
I'm pretty sure you don't know what socialism is, especially since you and millions of Americans enjoy some benefits that have been around for quite some time now that are somewhat socialist in nature but not exactly. And you watch too much Fox News.
I watch dont Fox news at all thank you very much.


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Galdareth

Member

01-04-2013

Side note, someone doesn't like people with opposite views as them as they are down voting everything I say. Teehee.. someone's.. mad.. Powerstone?


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t0ss

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guancyto View Post
No. It has never been a full democracy.

It's always been a republic.

Representative democracy, mother****ers, it's what's for dinner.

(Also, saying "America is becoming less democratic because it is becoming more socialist" is like saying "the tectonic plates move because my mother is in town." They've got jack diddly to do with each other, unless your mother is a fatass.)
This. We aren't a "full democracy."(Thank god) Also, don't listen to the socialism nonsense here.


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Zenbear

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galdareth View Post
Nope... in complete honesty America is slowy moving to socialism... it's a shame really, the principals and ethic that made the country what it is today are long diminished...
I can pretty much gurantee that alot of social services will be cut during this currrent tenure of Obama as president so that is just flat out false. He's already saying medicare is going to get cut. What Obama says during election and what Obama does afterwards are too completely different beasts.


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Galdareth

Member

01-04-2013

Socialism, socialistic in nature, and social services, are 3 entirely different things all together...


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Powerstoned

Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galdareth View Post
Side note, someone doesn't like people with opposite views as them as they are down voting everything I say. Teehee.. someone's.. mad.. Powerstone?
You kids dont make me mad and i dont use my time to downvote stupidity.


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AK47WOLF

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galdareth View Post
Nope... in complete honesty America is slowy moving to socialism... it's a shame really, the principals and ethic that made the country what it is today are long diminished...
The only people complaining about Socialism are the 1%...it will benefit everybody else.


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Blanchimont

Senior Member

01-04-2013

america is at best a representative democracy. direct democracy means we do and decide everything ourselves, but with a 40% or less voter turnout in most elections and the electoral college in place, we are not really a democracy. the electoral college votes according to the popular vote, but it is possible to win the popular vote yet lose the election due to the electoral college system. this defies the very idea of popular sovereignty.

america does have aspects of socialism, but no country is purely socialist/communist nor purely capitalist. the government helps to regulate our market to try to keep their shenanigans at a minimum. things like minimum wage and what is allowed to be in your water and in what amounts is controlled by the government. if there are too many regulations, then the government hinders the free market, but if there are too few regulations, the businesses can do whatever they want.


i'm going to go off on a tangent and call Galdareth out on some things
1) The Idea of Eminent Domain
The idea of eminent domain is that the government can seize your property, pay you what they think it is worth, and kick you out. Unfortunately, you get a lot less than the market value, usually around 40-50% of the market price. However, it is possible to refuse and challenge them through the courts to show that it is necessary to do this and for what reasons. They have to show it is reasonable like say expanding a highway to try to reduce traffic. Clearing out homes to build a large business is usually not good enough unless that area is already abandoned.

2) Taxes
Taxes is tricky because both the state and federal level have taxes and they are often used to pay for things that the people do benefit from so they are not necessarily losing out on all the money that was taken. Some businesses also take money out for other things like if they choose to opt into health care programs or 401k plans. Others have a few fees like union dues or other groups in the corporation that represent you on your behalf. Remember that a large portion of America does not pay a federal income taxes due to various exemptions and some things are deductible. Others get some of their money back each year. High income earners also do not pay the full rate on all their income. Some things have a percentage cap based on income. Also, if you plan to compare the tax from Boston Tea Party, remember that you have to adjust for inflation and it is still lower than what we have to pay today. The only thing is that we get something out of it for our taxes.

3) Tariffs and Quotas
While protectionist policies are bad, the reason why this happens is because a country never wants to be dependent on another country, especially for food. Food production in the US is heavily subsidized by the government and farmers are often asked to reserve some of their lands for special orders. Subsidies makes sure that the farms remain highly profitable and that they will not convert their land to build houses for rent. Most countries never want to be dependent on others for food and this is one way to do it.

The main reason for quotas is to prevent a flood. A flood can crash a part of the market due to excess supply and forcing the prices to drop. In the past, this was done to force out competitors by combining it with predatory pricing. This is why there are regulations against that sort of thing now.

The overall problem lies with the World Trade Organization though. Most of it is controlled by the wealthy countries while the developing ones are usually left out of it.

4) Regulations
Regulations exist because there is a need for them. Businesses have shown that they will not make changes on their own if there is a cost to them unless someone pressures them to. However, regulations also exist to make sure the things we eat and use are safe. The FDA does their best to make sure the food we eat is actually what they say it is and they are not grinding up old meat, mixing it with new meat, and selling it as sausages. The EPA makes sure that the water we drink does not have enough toxic chemicals in it to kill us.

Collusion and predatory pricing are different. For starters, they need sufficient evidence to show it. Collusion implies that businesses are working together to establish a standard price. This is done by either manipulating supply or manipulating prices. This only works if the businesses agree to it. Usually, cost is kept low due to competition because whoever can sell for less usually gets the most sales. Companies often work to try to find ways to lower their production costs to increase their profits and this is how they reduce prices to bankrupt competitors. If competitors cannot keep up with new technologies that make production cheaper, then they go out of business. If several businesses try to engage in predatory pricing against each other, then there is a chance all of them go out of business due to extended operating with losses.

This system only works when there are a few businesses that sell that product. The more there are, the harder it is to manipulate supply and prices. A company like Microsoft is essentially a monopoly with little competition from Apple or Linux in terms of computers. However, as long as they do not engage in monopolistic behavior by shutting out its competitors (at least in the US), then they are safe.

Predatory pricing is intentionally driving your costs down (usually at your own expense) to prevent competition. A business works to make money, but a business that has been around for a long time usually has spare capital and can operate in the red for a while without too much of a problem. However, new businesses cannot and their start up cost is high. They cannot engage in the same form of behavior and are forced to shut down.