Revive: turning bad plays into undeserved wins since 2011

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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NamKim View Post
Anyways, that is all I have to say. By posting in this thread, I cannot help but feel that I am treading in territory I shouldn't be in. I feel the need to express my views, but I also feel terrible for actually posting them as well.

Haha, I should probably take a break from the forums for awhile. Just enjoy the rest of my winter break with a nice book, YouTube videos, and Dominion.
Why? Because your Elo is not high? That's bull. Especially when it comes to such issues. These are issues that have nothing to do with how good you are at the game mode. I had no issues posting on this forum when I hovered around 1,550 Elo and had about 200 Dominion games.

If you have an opinion, and you want to epress it, do so. But be advised, this is something that makes many opening posts on this forum rubbish - this is not a blog. When you express an opinion, you're going to get responses, so you're engaging in an implicit agreement to defend your opinion.
That you, NamKim, are the one that posted this opinion is meaningless in our responses - look at us not pulling any punches from FDru's not very sensible post. The issue wasn't even with your stance, but the specific arguments you've used to support it, and the lack of such arguments for some points.

If you don't mind engaging in such discussions, and having to rethink and justify your opinions, keep doing so. If this activity is stressful to you, then perhaps you might benefit from a break from this forum - and TBH, I often feel I need a vacation too, but for different reasons.

For most of the points on this forum, Elo is not really relevant, as much as is critical thought and good expressive skills, which is also a danger of fora, where someone that appears to know what they're saying will often have more people listening than someone who knows but is completely unintelligible.

Now, finally, I think there is some merit to the idea that a lack of real choice is not ideal, but then it's cost and benefit, is this specific instance of lack of choice worth it, on the whole. I personally think it is, but this is a subjective call.


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inFe eD

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetarius View Post
Revive has a 9 minute cooldown. It's not a freebie mistake eraser when using it can be a mistake in and of itself or when being forced to use it is a consequence of making a mistake.

Imagine, for a second, if in an RTS, a unit producing factory was called to be a mistake eraser because you could rebuild your army after losing it. This is how silly your argument looks here.
I am unsurprised the master feederlord is arguing in favor of a spell that lets him feed more.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Says the Fiddlelord Flashson who spammed Elisia Miracle to increase the frequency of his revive feeds.


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MyDeadGrandma

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Exhaust/ignite: turning bad tanky dps players who cant even pull off their basic combos into unbeatable duelists every 180 seconds.

Garrison: turning bad kiters/tanks who cant juggle multiple attackers/anticipate lane pushes into immovable objects.

Death to summoner spells.


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Bma

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Whereas I don't think Revive is unskilful, I do think that it's funny that it makes an otherwise unskilful situation skilful.

Another thing I've always found a little funny, and frankly stupid are the respawn timers at start of game. Seems super dumb that players are encouraged to deliberately cap points in unorthodox ways, or flat out just waiting for the enemy to cap the point first which goes against any type of normal intuition. In other words, any player without knowledge of respawn timers (95% of the population, probably) would never even consider doing this, because capping points as soon as possible is just the logical thing to believe.


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Panzerzs

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NamKim View Post
To be honest, I do not like that Revive is sort of a "mistake eraser" and such a thing is just handed to every player.
I thought revive was also kinda of gay, but after a while, I enjoyed how revive made things more epic with more battles
-No doubt, it might punish good plays, but after a while, I still find that teamwork and constant "tab" checking for revives after enemy deaths still prevail ~!
-The revive metta for me also makes dominion a lot more fun to watch than sr simply because there's more action with revive
-It still frustrates me when we ambush an enemy and they revive instantly to make it a 4 v 4 again, but this situation just makes choice making even more crucial, thus makes dominion a lot harder to analyze in terms of when to attack or when to remain in jungle despite a free kill on the enemy right? =)
-Basically, the revive metta takes choice making to a whole new level (for me) because I rose elo like crazy before the revive metta, and basically how my friends and I won was through catching enemies in the jungle 1 by 1; with revive, these good plays wont be as effective. So what do we do now?? we quickly think of what to do if they did revive and we change our tactics and make more crucial decisions

-In conclusion, for me, revive just makes my map awareness and enemy location awareness a lot more harder to analyze, which forces me to think a little bit more, which is awesome for me
-i don't know, I guess im saying this because even with revive, teamwork still beats kids who spam ops with revive (jarvan, shaco, morgana, xerath, vayne VS wu kong, kassadin, darius, diana) I thought we'd get demolished, but we hung in there for a 7-0 win with constant communication and map awareness.

~Hopefully this'll help!


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FDru

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by naotasan View Post
The same reasons why Kassadin is still a problem, 14 months later.
Because they can just disable Kassadin whenever they want without any problems right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denz Brujah View Post
Oh look Fdru complaining again.... Guess someone got butthurt after losing a match.
I'm not complaining. I also haven't played a Dominion match in probably a month. I still want to see this map turn into a competitive and fun game mode with a healthy population instead of an unbalanced pile of rubbish that 99% of LoL players laugh at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
Considering both sides have access to Revive, your argument does not hold.
Wrong. If one team doesn't get aced in a close fight then they will not be able to Revive zerg and take over the game unfairly. Also, after this happens the team that lost cannot simply do the same in return. That should be obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidInsanity View Post
You kill an entire team - They revive and kill you. You revive and kill them. Now you are back to square one.
Except you revive and they are at full health with control of the map. It's actually a fair fight at that point, whereas before they used Revive to zerg your team after you fairly won a close fight (in which you should have gained control of the map) and destroyed you because you were weak. That is not "good play", it is turning a deserved loss into a win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetarius View Post
Revive has a 9 minute cooldown. It's not a freebie mistake eraser when using it can be a mistake in and of itself or when being forced to use it is a consequence of making a mistake.
I am seriously tired of the stupid cooldown argument. It is just as bad as the "everybody can use it" argument. Losing the game then turning it completely around with a button is gamebreaking even on a 9 minute cooldown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
I don't want Revive to be removed, but I do want all of the available summoned spells to be viable, simultaneously. I want to be able to run two different summoner spells without feeling like I'm hamstringing the team.

For that to happen, all summoner spells need to be looked at in the context of Dominion.
That's a good point, but I think the only 3 that seriously need attention are Exhaust, Revive and Garrison. Garrison is an easy fix, especially since it's Dom-specific (I think it still is, anyway). Revive could be disabled (or reworked) because it really is not balanced on any map currently, and that leaves Exhaust which I have nfc what they could do with.


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FDru

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
For most of the points on this forum, Elo is not really relevant, as much as is critical thought and good expressive skills, which is also a danger of fora, where someone that appears to know what they're saying will often have more people listening than someone who knows but is completely unintelligible.
Just one more thing, since you seem to really believe in this wholeheartedly... elo is definitely a factor when it comes to many issues in Dominion. Especially Revive. Revive is actually not chosen often in Dominion outside of high end play. The reason for that isn't just because players are ignorant (though that is part of it), but that Revive actually isn't as strong when taken by one or two players on the team. You do not see how good Revive is until you see it used properly.

The real power of Revive is being able to sweep in and take the advantage in force after a decisive failure. That is what makes it a broken spell, and that is why it's so important for it to be changed.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

12-31-2012

I'm saying for most points being discussed here, the player's Elo is not relevant - not in terms of what they experience, but for the points they bring to bear.

Of course what Elo you are changes what you face. My point was: If your argument's good, it doesn't matter what Elo you are. You can also qualify arguments for specific Elo-bands.


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MMKH

Senior Member

12-31-2012

FDru I don't even see you play Dominion these days anymore. Why make another one of these threads...


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