The Lore department's direction has destroyed the lore. It's over.

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Birdy51

Senior Member

12-30-2012

You know... We place a massive amount of emphasis on the writers, but the Lore doesn't always come from them alone. In fact, I would say that the Lore team should only hold about half the blame. The very way that champions are designed is equally important. Some characters are easy to insert into Runeterra, but some feel almost forced.

Take Rengar for example. Reading his lore, he sounds like his character could be inserted into any number of different worlds and he would still somehow make sense. Just substitute Valoran with another game world. The lore would still ring just as true. To make matters worse, we don't even know what kind of creature he is. These are not good tidings.

Now, despite this, I don't think his Lore is necessarially bad because of their writing. Rather, the character itself just doesn't work in the world that he was placed in. Very little care seemed to go into thinking where Rengar might belong, and why he would join the League during the design phase. They just seemed to want a tiger-man in the game, so they pushed him through on the context of his conflict with Kha'Zix.

Then you have characters with interesting lore that end up underwhelming as an applied character. Sejuani is a good example. I imagined her in several different ways, but I would have never guessed that she would enter the League in such an odd manner as a being a boar rider. While it is interesting to note that she is one of the few characters with a mount, at no point does she really need it. She could have stood easily on her own merits, but they ended up adding an odd gimic Sejuani didn't need. Add in the fact that she's wearing a bikini in the middle of the frigid tundra, and you have to shake your head a bit. The Lore Team didn't really drop the ball, but the designers could have made better choices.

It is not simply the lore team here, designers need to place more emphasis on how the characters fit into the world. We've seen some truly badass characters in the past with real ties to the world: Lux, Swain and LeBlanc, Viktor, Jarvan IV, Nasus, Renekton, Irelia, Orianna, Rumble, Urgot... The list goes on. They don't feel forced or out of place when in relation to their lore. Many of them have rich backstories that make them feel connected to their past, rather than using it to highlight some special acclomplishment. In turn, their characters in-game are just as interesting. The designers took the idea of a character, and they made it awesome.

If we really want to turn the lore around, I firmly believe that increased pressure has to be made upon the people who make the characters. Heck, if a character just doesn't make sense in the world, I say be done with it rather than struggle to make the piece fit. Otherwise you end up with characters that feel half-done because there is a disparity between the Lore that gives them life and the designs that make them fight.


EDIT: I feel like I should say something positive here. There are some designers who place a lot of love into their characters. Xypherous for instance. I also have to give major props to Ironstylus for his work as well.


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StarkRavenMad

Senior Member

12-30-2012

How can you call yourselves fan for lore when you won't even show the patience for something good to come out. Frankly, there are some good lore write-ups out there, and half the community hates it simply because they think its popular to hate everything Riot does now.

Yes, its taking awhile. Yes, the biographies have suffered. You know what, though? *****ing about it on the forums isn't going to do ****, outside of maybe bringing down the moral of any reds that are crazy enough to read what you half brained self entitled idiots have to say.

Downvote me, I don't even care, these forums used to be something actually good! In a short time, even before the new biographies, it became full of self entitled children that wanna cry because all thinking must be done for them.

...well, I feel better, now. Have a nice day.


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Drunk Sejuani

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkRavenMad View Post
you half brained self entitled idiots have to say.
Shut up, sit down, and let me repeat this.

We have had nothing for the past year save for the shutting down of the JoJ, Diana's inclusion (which subsequently did not go anywhere), and the Twisted Treeline revamp.

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.


It says something about the fans that they still even remotely respect the Lore team after this span of time. In any other media, you miss just one deadline and you are in danger. Lore fans, however, have waited to watch the Lore get slowly forgotten over the course of a year. I dont even know why you're calling yourself a "real fan" like it matters or whatever, but don't just sit there insulting other people.


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Snes C

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Not dead, just sleeping. Riot has confirmed that they do have a lot of stories to tell. Have you seen the Shadow Isles AMA on Reddit? They discussed a lot of stuff that they're still working on. The phrase "epic and comprehensive story" is used.

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflege...dow_isles_ama/


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Arcane Azmadi

Senior Member

12-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask Tyrant Swain View Post
Pretty much.
Also, I don't know why they threw away the judgements and the JoJ.
Those were both unique and fresh ways to deliver lore. I never saw any other game deliver lore in that way, and I liked it.
There wasn't any money in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snes C View Post
Not dead, just sleeping. Riot has confirmed that they do have a lot of stories to tell. Have you seen the Shadow Isles AMA on Reddit? They discussed a lot of stuff that they're still working on. The phrase "epic and comprehensive story" is used.

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflege...dow_isles_ama/
Yeah, well have you seen the response by the community to the evidence of our eyes? We've discussed a lot of stuff that Riot isn't working on too. The phrase "what a load of total cr*p" is used.


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Kohou

Senior Member

12-31-2012

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2585672

League needs more story, I'll agree with that. Did Riot forget story altogether? Not at all. They're working on a lot of different stuff, and waiting for a lot more.


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PKPikmin

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlynx View Post
What's wrong with liking a good fantasy story?

I don't even play league that much anymore, just poke around looking into the stories here and there and goofing around in co-op games...
You misunderstand. Dork Age is a trope where a franchise takes a new direction that doesn't work out.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DorkAge


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NecroticBinder

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkRavenMad View Post
How can you call yourselves fan for lore when you won't even show the patience for something good to come out. Frankly, there are some good lore write-ups out there, and half the community hates it simply because they think its popular to hate everything Riot does now.

Yes, its taking awhile. Yes, the biographies have suffered. You know what, though? *****ing about it on the forums isn't going to do ****, outside of maybe bringing down the moral of any reds that are crazy enough to read what you half brained self entitled idiots have to say.

Downvote me, I don't even care, these forums used to be something actually good! In a short time, even before the new biographies, it became full of self entitled children that wanna cry because all thinking must be done for them.

...well, I feel better, now. Have a nice day.
Oh, thank you for generalizing most potential counterarguments. What about those of us who have an actual problem with the obfuscation of lore? What about us who honestly feel that getting screwed over lore-wise is a bad thing? Because we have been. The world is simply not as deep as it was. It's not about patience, we've had around a year with NO IMPROVEMENT. This isn't about patience, it's about being near blind about Riot's flaws, or accepting that this is a problem.

Quote:
read what you half brained self entitled idiots have to say.

Downvote me, I don't even care, these forums used to be something actually good! In a short time, even before the new biographies, it became full of self entitled children that wanna cry because all thinking must be done for them.
This in particular is what I'll single out. Alright, lets say you've got a game that you enjoy and the lore and other backstory to the game is pretty good. It's enjoyable, it's consistent and is good writing. Then slowly, the quality of writing decreases. So you voice your concerns instead of lying there and letting the lore get ruined. Of course, what is different in this regard then other games is that the company supposedly talks to their players and listens to their concerns, yet those that care about the lore are flat out ignored.

So of course, the players who care about the lore are going to get louder and more annoyed as an issue that is critical to them and not that difficult to resolve is shoved under a rug. An applicable quote for this situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Niemöller
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a catholic.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
I quote this because if you sit down, and do not voice your concern regarding things you might not feel directly relate to you, then you will suffer in the long run.

But while complaining about it on the forums by itself is not going to resolve anything, it puts our complaints forward. What needs to be done next is to try to educate people, get people interested in the lore and make it an issue Riot has to respond to. Besides, people will complain to vent emotions.

Quote:
Not dead, just sleeping. Riot has confirmed that they do have a lot of stories to tell. Have you seen the Shadow Isles AMA on Reddit? They discussed a lot of stuff that they're still working on. The phrase "epic and comprehensive story" is used.

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflege...dow_isles_ama/
She also coined the term "Factopalypse" or something like that. I will believe "Epic and comprehensive story" when I see it, not a second sooner. While the lore is not dead, it is dying as a serious lore outlet.

The world as we know it is becoming more vague, and less interesting.

Quote:
You know... We place a massive amount of emphasis on the writers, but the Lore doesn't always come from them alone. In fact, I would say that the Lore team should only hold about half the blame. The very way that champions are designed is equally important. Some characters are easy to insert into Runeterra, but some feel almost forced.

Take Rengar for example. Reading his lore, he sounds like his character could be inserted into any number of different worlds and he would still somehow make sense. Just substitute Valoran with another game world. The lore would still ring just as true. To make matters worse, we don't even know what kind of creature he is. These are not good tidings.

Now, despite this, I don't think his Lore is necessarially bad because of their writing. Rather, the character itself just doesn't work in the world that he was placed in. Very little care seemed to go into thinking where Rengar might belong, and why he would join the League during the design phase. They just seemed to want a tiger-man in the game, so they pushed him through on the context of his conflict with Kha'Zix.

Then you have characters with interesting lore that end up underwhelming as an applied character. Sejuani is a good example. I imagined her in several different ways, but I would have never guessed that she would enter the League in such an odd manner as a being a boar rider. While it is interesting to note that she is one of the few characters with a mount, at no point does she really need it. She could have stood easily on her own merits, but they ended up adding an odd gimic Sejuani didn't need. Add in the fact that she's wearing a bikini in the middle of the frigid tundra, and you have to shake your head a bit. The Lore Team didn't really drop the ball, but the designers could have made better choices.

It is not simply the lore team here, designers need to place more emphasis on how the characters fit into the world. We've seen some truly badass characters in the past with real ties to the world: Lux, Swain and LeBlanc, Viktor, Jarvan IV, Nasus, Renekton, Irelia, Orianna, Rumble, Urgot... The list goes on. They don't feel forced or out of place when in relation to their lore. Many of them have rich backstories that make them feel connected to their past, rather than using it to highlight some special acclomplishment. In turn, their characters in-game are just as interesting. The designers took the idea of a character, and they made it awesome.

If we really want to turn the lore around, I firmly believe that increased pressure has to be made upon the people who make the characters. Heck, if a character just doesn't make sense in the world, I say be done with it rather than struggle to make the piece fit. Otherwise you end up with characters that feel half-done because there is a disparity between the Lore that gives them life and the designs that make them fight.


EDIT: I feel like I should say something positive here. There are some designers who place a lot of love into their characters. Xypherous for instance. I also have to give major props to Ironstylus for his work as well.
I agree and disagree. We've had a wide variety of champions who feel real and personally, I've no qualms about Rengar if he comes from the Plague Jungles or something like that, from the lore that has been given it would make sense, establish his uniqueness and position in the world.

As for Sejuani, the part that doesn't make sense is her chainmail bikini. I don't see the boar as a gimmick but more as an additional element of her story, it is a close friend or entity to her that she has lived with.

The designers do influence it, and they should have a healthy communicative relationship with the lore department, they would probably only extend to about 1/3 of the blame at most in my opinion because we've justified Skarner, Nasus, and Renekton in the lore and have had them match.


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Kohou

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methelod View Post
Oh, thank you for generalizing most potential counterarguments. What about those of us who have an actual problem with the obfuscation of lore? What about us who honestly feel that getting screwed over lore-wise is a bad thing? Because we have been. The world is simply not as deep as it was. It's not about patience, we've had around a year with NO IMPROVEMENT. This isn't about patience, it's about being near blind about Riot's flaws, or accepting that this is a problem.



This in particular is what I'll single out. Alright, lets say you've got a game that you enjoy and the lore and other backstory to the game is pretty good. It's enjoyable, it's consistent and is good writing. Then slowly, the quality of writing decreases. So you voice your concerns instead of lying there and letting the lore get ruined. Of course, what is different in this regard then other games is that the company supposedly talks to their players and listens to their concerns, yet those that care about the lore are flat out ignored.

So of course, the players who care about the lore are going to get louder and more annoyed as an issue that is critical to them and not that difficult to resolve is shoved under a rug. An applicable quote for this situation.



I quote this because if you sit down, and do not voice your concern regarding things you might not feel directly relate to you, then you will suffer in the long run.

But while complaining about it on the forums by itself is not going to resolve anything, it puts our complaints forward. What needs to be done next is to try to educate people, get people interested in the lore and make it an issue Riot has to respond to. Besides, people will complain to vent emotions.



She also coined the term "Factopalypse" or something like that. I will believe "Epic and comprehensive story" when I see it, not a second sooner. While the lore is not dead, it is dying as a serious lore outlet.

The world as we know it is becoming more vague, and less interesting.



I agree and disagree. We've had a wide variety of champions who feel real and personally, I've no qualms about Rengar if he comes from the Plague Jungles or something like that, from the lore that has been given it would make sense, establish his uniqueness and position in the world.

As for Sejuani, the part that doesn't make sense is her chainmail bikini. I don't see the boar as a gimmick but more as an additional element of her story, it is a close friend or entity to her that she has lived with.

The designers do influence it, and they should have a healthy communicative relationship with the lore department, they would probably only extend to about 1/3 of the blame at most in my opinion because we've justified Skarner, Nasus, and Renekton in the lore and have had them match.
Go home Methelod, you're drunk.


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NecroticBinder

Senior Member

12-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Probably Singed View Post
Go home Methelod, you're drunk.
Ha! :P Didn't realize that my post gave the false hint of inebriation. (Yes, I realize the above is a meme but I reserve my humor)