Why elo hell does not exist and why that is good

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BananaSniper

Senior Member

08-19-2012

ELO hell exists at all levels, There are people who troll or do really stupid things at every single ELO. Thus making it "ELO Hell" for that specific game.


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LogicalTautology

Senior Member

08-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harninger View Post
True. I got into elo hell from just feeding and not working with my team. Now that I have practiced in normal games and perform very well in ranked I cannot win when teammates constantly go AFK, refuse to discuss champion selection or just straight feed the enemy team. I find it really frustrating that ranked only seems to work with those who have ranked teams or a duo partner. For those of us flying solo I definitely think the ranked system is broken and not a direct reflection of personal skill.
Let us assume the following two statements:
1) You do not go AFK, feed, or refuse to communicate
2) Your attitude does not make people more likely than average to go AFK, feed, or stop communicating

In that case, by simple common sense, it's obvious that the other team is 25% more likely than your team is to have someone who 'makes the game unwinnable'. Now, don't think that I'm calling you a liar, perhaps indeed you DO end up with a lot more AFK people on your team than people who go AFK on the other team: that's entirely possible. But guess what? The ONLY possible explanation for that is that one of the original two assumptions is false.


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Valvo

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Member

08-20-2012

Wow, that's the first time I see that kind of thread, and this one have completly different opinion!

When will people will stop spamming everything with elo hell whether exist or not..?


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jetpotion

Senior Member

10-19-2012

No such thing as elo hell.Robertxlee has stream hundreds of elo jobs and tons of smurfs.Now he has played over hundreds games at low elo games.GUESS WHAT HES CARRIED EVERY SINGLE GAME EVEN WHEN TROLLING AND HIS TEAM ARE REALLY BAD.Cruze the bruzer goes from 500 elo 2.1k.Choax goes 1.2k to 1.7k in 2 days.Scarra reach 2k in 3 days in korea and reach number 1 with 24 and 1 in na before season 1 etc,the list goes on.I met this jax i played with he does good but he BUILDS BT AND A FROZEN MALLET ON JAX AND LACK MAP AWARENESS AND ONLY FINISH THE LOW HEALTH TARGETS. Another idiot complains about elo hell and he says he did good but when I check his stats he was doing poorly as hell.I can list more examples.Doing good in 1 game does not make you good at anyway. If you do good at least 70 percent of your games you should carry elo ten fold.On the basis over 100 games.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

10-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalTautology View Post
Let us assume the following two statements:
1) You do not go AFK, feed, or refuse to communicate
2) Your attitude does not make people more likely than average to go AFK, feed, or stop communicating

In that case, by simple common sense, it's obvious that the other team is 25% more likely than your team is to have someone who 'makes the game unwinnable'. Now, don't think that I'm calling you a liar, perhaps indeed you DO end up with a lot more AFK people on your team than people who go AFK on the other team: that's entirely possible. But guess what? The ONLY possible explanation for that is that one of the original two assumptions is false.
The percentage is actually 20%, not 25%. Other than that though, yes, I pretty much agree.


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jetpotion

Senior Member

10-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by datuglykid View Post
sry bro but elo hell is real. I know how it sounds but I encounter maybe 1 out of 5 games(50 players, 98%) player that is better than me, awareness wise. Not to say I dont make a lot of mistakes but my self awareness is very high and they get corrected. trolls, mexicans, autolockers, and straight noobs(no offense but play norm). I cannot get out of the habit of overcorrecting my teams mistakes which leaves me gimped and worn out from trying so hard. F this game.
Oh really when I check your stats at your lolking your stats are horrible.Going 1.5 kda and less does not prove your higher elo.Many of them have more deaths per game then kills more game.I havent seen you go 2.0 or more at least.I know dropped that low when I played olaf biggest mistake of my life had no experience.But you need a champion that you have a 2.0 kda at least.


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aLegend

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Senior Member

10-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Semiwestern View Post
Im sorry but i dont agree with this. I gave up awhile ago on trying to raise my Elo. Now instead of getting pissed at bad teammates and not enjoying the game at all, I just do as well as I can. I focus on winning my lane, and trying to work with what I am given. The thing is, is that at 1200ish elo, some people just flat out suck/leave/troll too much for me to be able to carry myself out.

Congrats to the people that did carry themselves out (almost definitely by duoing), but I play team ranked games with guys that were ranked in the top 5 on the european servers and do as well if not better than them in every game. The system is quite messed up in my opinion, and I'm definitely not the first person to say this.
>Reads post
>lolking.net
>semiwestern
>1400 team elo
>i call bull****
lol top 5 in eu my ass


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GaviNNN

Senior Member

10-20-2012

I couldn't carry myself out of elo hell so I duo'd with a friend that didn't have complete downs. I played adc 95% of my ranked games and he would support me. Got from 800 to 1300 elo doing this.

note: Friend cant win without me since he supports and he plays a lot more than I do so he got from ~700 to 1000 elo with me carrying him through lane. Moral of the story, get someone that can play half decently and you guys can help each other out to carry the inevitable other 3 ******* you'll get on your team.


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Magic Library

Senior Member

12-23-2012

This is an old thread,but I stumbled on it and wanted to note something. There is a huge flaw is the OPs logic.

He argues his point using the rule of large numbers "given enough games you will equal out" which is only partially true. This is because that same number of outcomes will not happen to every individual. Given that all things are normal and therefore the dispersion of players' ELOs are set at a normal distribution, then each different player will be faced with different, varying amounts of each type of game. This means that some players will have an equal trade-off of trolled games and good games, but then there will be players that never encounter trolls or are stuck with them every game(thereby being placed in "elo hell").

This idea in of itself does bring into question the very value of ELO as a measurement of capability. Are high end players (such as HotshotGG) really all that good? or are they just on the end of the curve? Or maybe even the lowest ELO player in the entire game is secretly the best player, but in reality your cant "carry it all the way". This may sound preposterous, but whether or not it is realistic isn't the point. The point is that there are large holes in your logic and the ELO system IS fundamentally faulty, but unfortunately there is no realistic way to make it 100% accurate. That is why this is used, and we get "close enough" rankings.


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LogicalTautology

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cook My Socks View Post
This is an old thread,but I stumbled on it and wanted to note something. There is a huge flaw is the OPs logic.

He argues his point using the rule of large numbers "given enough games you will equal out" which is only partially true. This is because that same number of outcomes will not happen to every individual. Given that all things are normal and therefore the dispersion of players' ELOs are set at a normal distribution, then each different player will be faced with different, varying amounts of each type of game. This means that some players will have an equal trade-off of trolled games and good games, but then there will be players that never encounter trolls or are stuck with them every game(thereby being placed in "elo hell").

This idea in of itself does bring into question the very value of ELO as a measurement of capability. Are high end players (such as HotshotGG) really all that good? or are they just on the end of the curve? Or maybe even the lowest ELO player in the entire game is secretly the best player, but in reality your cant "carry it all the way". This may sound preposterous, but whether or not it is realistic isn't the point. The point is that there are large holes in your logic and the ELO system IS fundamentally faulty, but unfortunately there is no realistic way to make it 100% accurate. That is why this is used, and we get "close enough" rankings.
You do not understand probabilities, and how it relates to large numbers. Let us further assume that the team with the player who plays the worst wins the game every time.

If you are at the exact Elo you belong, your chances of winning between 40-60% of your games is over 95%! Extrapolate from that, and there is only a 5% chance you will either win or lose more than 60% of your games even if you are no better or worse than the average player in your games. One step further, and if you are being matched against players of your skill level, there is only a 2.5% chance of losing more than 60% of your games!

You might tell me that 2.5% is a lot, and you would be right. You are forgetting the assumption we made to arrive at those numbers, though: that you are no better or worse than the players in your Elo bracket. If you are even 100 Elo below your 'true Elo', your chances of being the reason your team lost will be much much lower than the chances that any other player in the game is the reason his team lost!