AP Mages are losing their place in League

First Riot Post
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CynicalGiant

Senior Member

12-21-2012

AP burst is dead
AP utility/control isnt.

Play Viktor/Swain/Anivia/Orianna/Syndra


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Joebags

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by pro4never View Post
Play utility or cleanup style AP's and you'll find they are still hella strong.

Anivia and oriana for huge utility and great damage
katarina/karthus for cleanup and map presence

New DFG gave a nice viability boost to heavy bursters like annie/veigar/syndra
New archangels gave a nice boost to tanky sustained ap characters like swain and ryze


They're less required but still plenty strong.
Just because a champion has utility doesn't mean they can fill their role as burst damage dealer. Having utility is great, but it doesn't help if there's simply no way you can kill your opponent.

Also, Kat is very obviously an extremely powerful assassin (personally I feel she is a bit too powerful but that's another discussion altogether) with ridiculous mobility and basically no cooldowns because of her passive. You can't really lump her in with other squishy burst mages, most of which lack high mobility and have to deal with much longer cooldowns. For them, if they can't take someone out in one combo, they are pretty much dead. Not the case with Kat.

Lastly, the new DFG is meh at best. It's no where near as good as what it used to be. 15% HP + 20% bonus magic damage equates to maybe ~400-600 damage to a 3000 HP target after factoring in resistances. It used to chunk people for 40% of their HP easily.


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ElementzPRO

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hachirokuo View Post
Talon was played so much that it took riot and everyone else 1 year to tell his E was broke. That should tell you how viable AD casters were in S2.
bruisers are the real problem not AD casters
Lee Sin has been broken for a very long time and he just adds much more to a team than any AP

-High base damage
-Good scaling
-Mobile
-Extremely strong early
-Good Sustain
-A shield
-A knock back
-A slow
-An attack speed slow
-No mana

find me an ap carry who has as much on their kit as lee does


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Dralun

Senior Member

12-21-2012

There are some late game AP mages that do good damage late game, Ori, Karthus, Anivia, but the problem is there just aren't many.


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Kise

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Senior Member

12-21-2012

I never got the point of glass cannon mages. You do enough damage early game off base stats from leveling skills. Build RoA/Rylais/HG->LT to shrug off the early-mid game damage your enemies throw at you.

And be smart about team comp. Don't pick all poke or all single-target champs.


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EzSkillshot

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElementzPRO View Post
Noob falling for the noobtrap

Unique: Deals 15% of target champion's maximum health in magic damage and applies the debuff, Doom. Doom amplifies all magic damage that champion takes by 20% for 4 seconds. 60 second cooldown (750 range).

vs

Unique: +35% magic penetration

If you use dfg against an opponent you gain 20% damage against them for 4 seconds
if you have void staff you do about 20% more damage to every opponent at all times because you are penetrating their MR
You are a noob.
DFG increases damage taken from ALL magic damage sources including from your entire team.
You can get a DFG AND Void staff.
That apparently is too hard for you to follow, my little noob.


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Zhugan

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Risemix View Post
This just isn't the case. The reality is that getting close enough to a bruiser mid to harass them is very dangerous. You might land a spell or two, but mages are weak early. AD bruisers and casters have stronger base stats and base damage, and usually aren't afraid to just walk up and start harassing you.

This is already happening both in the pro scene and in solo queue. Champions like Talon, Lee Sin, Pantheon, Fiora, Xin Zhao, etc. are just better choices mid lane because they have very few AP counters. The only way to counter this threat is to play another bruiser or one of the few mages that can handle it.
The champions that you are giving as examples were ALWAYS counters to ap mids. Especially ap champions with few escapes. All Riot did was give them actual viable itemization, which they didn't have before.

The number of times I've seen people play Talon/Xin/Panth mid and dominate is high. They all have both instant gap closers (that are no skill) AND stun/knock-up/silence. IF that doesn't read like someone who should be able to beat an ap mid, I don't know what does. The thing is, again, that was ALWAYS true.

Although Fiora and Lee Sin should both lose to a good ap mid if the ap champion plays effectively. Lee Sin is entirely reliant on landing his Q, if you can dodge that then you're fine. Fiora's gap closer is scary, and her burst is unfortunate, but most ap mids have either stuns or snares. GG Fiora, can't really chase when you are rooted to the ground.


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ElementzPRO

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by EzSkillshot View Post
It's funny because you just listed every single type of carry in the game by saying "burst or sustained". Do you even read bro?
AP carries arent viable basically
AP mid supports are viable

mage damage falls off too hard so you have to pick someone for their utility which means all carries are out


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EzraTwitch

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Bruisers Strongest Early Game, Weakest Mid Game (Comparativly), Medium Strength late game.

ADC's Strongest Late game, Medium Strength Mid game, Weak Early Game.

AP Mage Strongest Mid game, Medium Strength Late Game, Weak Early Game.

Obviously Exceptions exist but basically this.

(Nasus and Veiger come to mind as they are basically a Late Game Bruiser Carry, and A Late Game Mage Carry respectivly).

NOTE*Supports strength varys depending on support and the comp they are supporting as they are more a force amplifier then anything.


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ElementzPRO

Senior Member

12-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by EzSkillshot View Post
You are a noob.
DFG increases damage taken from ALL magic damage sources including from your entire team.
You can get a DFG AND Void staff.
That apparently is too hard for you to follow, my little noob.
YEAH ALL THAT MAGIC DAMAGE COMING FROM EVERYONE BUT THE AP CARRY

ITS ALMOST LIKE THE AP CARRY IS THE MAJORITY OF THE TEAMS MAGIC DAMAGE OR SOMETHING lol