"Unbalancable by Design"

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Tetza

Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timebomb0800 View Post
You forgot to mention sejuani buffs, but yes I agree.
And dot forget riven, she hasthe highest base health regen in the game yet she already has high mobility and that low cd shield
Riven - health regen needed on PBE from 9.5 to 4.5
Shield scaling .4 from 1.0
Ult CD increased


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KevinDelMarr

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Someone like Blitzcrank is really much harder to nerf because his strength is also his defining characteristic. It's up to live team to determine if Blitzcrank is a problem though.
His problem is his other abilities, not Q

Overdrive is potentially constant with a rediculous MS boost for a bot lane Support ability (no ADC or Support can outrun that)
Power Fist needs one point to do good damage and utility and scales on its own throughout the game (25 mana for that kind of Utility and damage?)
His Ult is ok.

People need to realize there are 100 other abilities as annoying as Rocket Grab we can complain about. It doesn't help he's a Support with BRUISER stats, great Utility to boot. He really needs to be treated as a Support because I'm sure almost no one plays him Mid or Top Lane. And if they do everyone is wondering why he isn't Support. Why Riot doesn't see this is beyond me. Just balance him like the Support he is.

Edit: RiotNome him/herself seems to have fallen in the trap of focusing solely on Rocket Grab. We all know it's counters, how one grab can win the game, that its his "defining Characteristic" and annoying as hell to face. His other abilities are what make him the most hated Support to face.


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sergeantpickle

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I alluded to this in another post I wrote, but you're generally right--there's no such thing as an unbalanceable concept.

However, an important consideration to take when finding that happy medium between OP and UP is whether that ability still feels good to use in the end. Lee Sin is a great example for a champion that's actually very easy to nerf, as he's quite mechanically bloated...
Q: damage, dash, execute, reveal
W: shield, dash, energy return, life steal, spell vamp
E: damage, reveal, attack speed slow, move speed slow
R: damage, targeted interrupt, AoE interrupt
It's incredibly difficult to nerf individual numbers, as that runs the risk of watering it down so much he's no longer fun to use. However because his abilities have so much tacked on, it's a simple matter to remove one of the more minor aspects without destroying his core gameplay (for example, the energy return on his W that most people, including me two days ago, don't even know about).

Someone like Blitzcrank is really much harder to nerf because his strength is also his defining characteristic. It's up to live team to determine if Blitzcrank is a problem though.
"(for example, the energy return on his W that most people, including me two days ago, don't even know about)"

Upcoming Lee Sin nerfs. This is like how people ignored the fact that Ezreal's W had an amazing attack speed slow tacked on it coupled with insane base damage.


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Gazow

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Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I alluded to this in another post I wrote, but you're generally right--there's no such thing as an unbalanceable concept.

However, an important consideration to take when finding that happy medium between OP and UP is whether that ability still feels good to use in the end. Lee Sin is a great example for a champion that's actually very easy to nerf, as he's quite mechanically bloated...
Q: damage, dash, execute, reveal
W: shield, dash, energy return, life steal, spell vamp
E: damage, reveal, attack speed slow, move speed slow
R: damage, targeted interrupt, AoE interrupt
It's incredibly difficult to nerf individual numbers, as that runs the risk of watering it down so much he's no longer fun to use. However because his abilities have so much tacked on, it's a simple matter to remove one of the more minor aspects without destroying his core gameplay (for example, the energy return on his W that most people, including me two days ago, don't even know about).

Someone like Blitzcrank is really much harder to nerf because his strength is also his defining characteristic. It's up to live team to determine if Blitzcrank is a problem though.
the live team has proven time and time again that they are incompetent, what gives? how are they keeping their jobs when they clearly arent doing them


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Anthropics

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by shalexade View Post
Except Zyra was picked and banned more often and had a higher win rate than Blitz.

Blitz is strong in the right hands, no doubt about it- but his sub-50% win rate doesn't lie.
And Zyra has been nerfed accordingly.


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Blindsorcerer

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Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vannan Marlfox View Post
To be fair, Galio's cooldown is super high and Sona is squishy.
Galio's ult cd is 20 seconds more than Amumu's, but trades this for an obscene amount of damage.


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Krynul

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindsorcerer View Post
Galio's ult cd is 20 seconds more than Amumu's, but trades this for an obscene amount of damage.
It's bursty yes, but with pretty high mana costs. buying chalice of harmony just barely manages to keep his mana hunger in check.


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Alyran

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Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Someone like Blitzcrank is really much harder to nerf because his strength is also his defining characteristic. It's up to live team to determine if Blitzcrank is a problem though.
I love Blitzcrank, but you could easily nerf his ult damage. It's pretty ridiculous for a 30 second CD massive AoE interrupt. And then the passive part is just beast during 1v1s.

For those who don't know, it's 100/200/300 damage on the passive part every 2.5 seconds and 250/375/500 on active. Though the passive part goes down while his ult's on CD.


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daemonchorro

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Blitzcrank, the Support-Carry-Tank-CC-DPS master.


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Anthropics

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krynul View Post
I agree actually. Especially with shen. People just refuse to stop chasing someone at low health even when Shen is blatantly ulting to them. If you see a shen ult, ****ing back off. It's an ultimate for god's sake, it's meant to be inconvenient. If it was supposed to be ignorable then it wouldn't be on a 3 minutes cooldown would it?

It's kind of annoying, shen is considered useless so they rework him. Everyone starts playing him and admittedly, he was too strong. But then they start nerfing him, and nerfing him, and nerfing him. now he's actually worse than old shen in every way that can be compared (the only advantages is the energy regen, fixes to his ki strike and W, and damage on his taunt, mostly utility and qol stuff) and people are STILL *****ing about him. They just refuse to play smart against him or any tank because it's inconvenient.
It's not about Shen's ability to save somebody who's dying or his baiting ability. It's about his ability to simply stack health and force somebody to be in his lane at all times while his team forces an objective 4v4, which quickly becomes 5v4. It wasn't an issue pre Shen buffs because Shen was easy to shut down in laning. His shield was pathetic as were his base stats. Now, however, Shen is an immovable wall in laning, able to last hit with his Q even in the worst of match ups to heal himself and shrug off poke with his shield.