Looking for Sejuani Feedback

First Riot Post
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Thessalonike

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuphlas View Post
I like how there is 0 riot presence in this thread other than the stuff from the day it was released.
To be fair ricklessabandon has been all over Sejuani.


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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

12-20-2012
4 of 38 Riot Posts

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Originally Posted by Rustyemo View Post
any news on this ?..
Still gathering feedback at this point, lot of decent discussion to read through.

Just to be clear this isn't going to result in any immediate changes. We'll start testing some stuff internally sometime in January but there'll be a fair bit of testing and iteration needed so it'll take a while to get to the end of the process. I'll post a progress update at some point once we've got a direction locked down.


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EliteFourWolfie

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Her early defenses are extremely weak and her jungle is very painful until she gets some items to make her beefier. Her auto attacks are also pretty butts.

Her mana costs are pretty hefty early (understandable I guess), but the cooldown on her charge is really long.

I do really like how she brings permaslow to a team, though. It's like once Sejuani locks on you with her team behind you, you're gone. She has the potential to be a good champion, just her execution could have been better. Her ultimate is EXTREMELY fun to land, as well.

If anything is going to change about her, like I said above, I'd at least like her base defenses/health upped so her jungle isn't as painful as it is.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Still gathering feedback at this point, lot of decent discussion to read through.

Just to be clear this isn't going to result in any immediate changes. We'll start testing some stuff internally sometime in January but there'll be a fair bit of testing and iteration needed so it'll take a while to get to the end of the process. I'll post a progress update at some point once we've got a direction locked down.
But surely Ironstylus has his direction started already.... *crosses fingers*


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Still gathering feedback at this point, lot of decent discussion to read through.

Just to be clear this isn't going to result in any immediate changes. We'll start testing some stuff internally sometime in January but there'll be a fair bit of testing and iteration needed so it'll take a while to get to the end of the process. I'll post a progress update at some point once we've got a direction locked down.
What I really want is for Volty to tell us his thoughts, since he's the one who designed her. I bet he could explain why she has no defensive steroid.


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dredzach

Senior Member

12-20-2012

She needs an ability that boosts her tankiness. She would be a good tank if she was tankier.


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Samflash3

Senior Member

12-20-2012

She needs a way to provide cc while in battle.The question runs down to whether you want to deal damage with your abilities (scaling with health and/or ability power) or with auto attacks as a fighter.
or be a true tank who offers no real damage but a lot of CC. The Ultimate she has is a good initiation ability. Unfortunately her E and her passive doesn't exactly sync in an amazing way.
If she was to rely on her slow, at least it should the movement AND (attack speed or attack damage) of the character hit by her passive once activated.
If she was meant to be cc reliant, then How about giving her a passive such that after 4 hits on a specific target, it stuns the target for 1 second. Can only occur every 5/6 seconds.

Also, she tends to need sustain when she initiates with arctic assault. If she gets a shield baed on how many enemy minions(has a cap) and champions she hit for 2 seconds, it should contribute to her greatly.

Northern Winds visuals needs to be vamped up a bit like tornadoes. One of the things that make a character look powerful is how intimidating they appear.

I think she should not be mana dependant but thats my opinion.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Still gathering feedback at this point, lot of decent discussion to read through.

Just to be clear this isn't going to result in any immediate changes. We'll start testing some stuff internally sometime in January but there'll be a fair bit of testing and iteration needed so it'll take a while to get to the end of the process. I'll post a progress update at some point once we've got a direction locked down.
Just curious, after the bump in armor and the additional second to Northern Winds is it possible that everything tested internally may be viewed as op and result in no additional changes? Or is it believed internally that Sejuani does need something else?


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Garband

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
1. What do you like about her current kit/what would you be saddened to see changed or removed?

2. What do you dislike about her current kit?

3. What would you like to see tweaked or added?
I think Sejuani is most comparable to Leona.
Both have poor ratios on their damage, both are control tanks in that their main objective is to cc the enemy, both suffer from long CD's (however, Sejuani's are a lot worse) and both have 700 range gap closers.
The differences are that Leona trades off some of the damage that Sejuani has for hard cc rather than mainly soft cc.

Honestly, if you look at base stats and the scaling, Sejuani is more powerful (minus base AD) and more tanky. Here's what I think makes everyone prefer Leona over Sejuani:

--Sejuani's damage is sustained melee damage ; Leona adds damage to her teammates + has burst-type damage.

--Leona has a HUGE defensive steroid (although it is actually worse than Galio's Bulwark) ; Sejuani has no defensive OR offensive steroid.

----This becomes a problem in that Sejuani has to farm to itemize for her role. Leona can be played as a support (which is really the only role people see her as viable in because of her bad scaling, low damage, and long CD's <which prevent her from competitive jungle clearing>), and buy support items to help her team because she has no real need for items to become tanky.

--As stated before.. Leona has 3x hard CC -- Q,E,R. Sejuani has 1x hard CC -- R. Soft CC is much less desired in League because of the huge mobility creep (I'm slowed? Watch as I arcane shift/flash/wall/own cc/etc away!).

--Sejuani's ult is actually quite ridiculous. The size of the AoE is massive, and it's throw range is extremely long ; Leona's ult slows harder than Sejuani can even with Permafrost if you don't land the stun, or stuns in an AoE for almost as long as Sejuani can on a single target. Oh yeah, and it's cast range is longer than Sejuani's.

--Oh yeah, this bears repeating... THE COOLDOWNS, MAN, THE COOLDOWNS!
Sejuani:
Q: 19/17/15/13/11
W: 10
E: 11
R: 130/115/100

Leona:
Q: 11/10/9/8/7
W: 14
E: 13/12/11/10/9
R: 90/75/60
----Leona can initiate from 700 range 20% more often than Sejuani (E vs Q). Leona can initiate from 1200 range 40% more often (technically 100% more often since Sejuani's ult is 1150 ;p). Leona can apply her hardest CC 37% more often than Sejuani can (Q vs E). And lastly, Sejuani can only become moderately more offensive 29% more than Leona can become super defensive.

1. I actually really like her kit. However...
--1.a. I would move her passive onto her E. "Passive: Sejuani's basic attacks apply Frost, a slowing effect, reducing enemy movement speed by 10% for 3 seconds. Active: Sejuani converts Frost on nearby enemies to Permafrost, dealing magic damage and decreasing their movement speed further for 3 seconds."
--1.b.Q range feels wayyyyy too short. I understand 700 is quite a distance, but it still feels extremely short when you think about her role and her kit... And the fact that she is riding a boar.

2&3. I actually sort of posted this in the very beginning. Oops!

I love Sejuani, but I fill like she doesn't actually suit the role she seems to be designed for. Maybe she should be tweaked to be more like a combo of Nautilus and Rumble -- melee AP Bruiser. Her ratios and cooldowns would definitely have to be improved, though.


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MailYourFission

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Junior Member

12-20-2012

She needs her cooldowns lowered and maybe some of her mana costs lowered on at least her Q if anything.

Her early game is pretty weak, which is fine if she had some compensation for her weak early game, which I don't feel exists. Her cooldowns are quite long for what they provide, especially her Q. It's a gap closer that provides a weak slow which is only useful for her permafrost, which is on quite a long cooldown as well, and she cannot peel well at all without her ultimate when her skills are on cooldown.

She basically has no decent CC outside of her ultimate and her E, and she doesn't do much when these two skills are on cooldown in terms of slowing an enemy or peeling an enemy because her passive is ass.