Armor and MR are close to worthless.

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milkz

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Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FnRedBaron View Post
MPen and APen are great ideas, they really are. The game probably would be **** without them, but right now they are just too easy to get. With 2 items alone you can get about 70% Armor Pen, and with items like Liandrys being so strong in their own right as well as granting Mpen it's just frustrating to have alot of MR or have alot of armor and not be able to feel the effects of it.

Defences and Penetrations are good things in balance, but right now the balance is off. Way off.

R.I.P Rammus
"Ok", 2010-2012
70% armour pen. lol.


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Mister Yi

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud Potato View Post
Since you don't seem to know that %pen stacks multiplicatively, I'll make this simple.

100 Armor gives you 50% damage reduction. Let's say half of that gets taken off thanks to the big scary Black Cleaver. You now have 33% damage reduction. Your opponent would have 50% damage on you without BC, and 66% damage with it. That is an increase of damage by 33%. Now lets say this is early on, and the enemy has 100 AD. The BC gives 50 AD, Making the enemy have 150 AD. This is a 50% increase in damage.

If the enemy bought the Bloodthirster, he would get 100 AD (after stacking). This would be a 100% increase in damage. Nerf AD.
100 armour is a small amount late game we are talking about how it hurt actual armour/mr items and most have 100 armour base


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Malefic Vision

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Regardless of semantics and specifics, everyone in this thread agrees that buying defence is just worse than buying health right now


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Burn the Witches

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Ackbar View Post
You know... I'm actually gonna agree with you.
Few games ago, I saw a Shen build literally nothing but health items and he was the tankiest person on their team because ARpen and Mpen mean nothing against health.
Some people would call that logic.


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magik8ball

Senior Member

12-19-2012

You know, WoW actually had this exact same problem when they had an armor penetration stat.

What it boils down to is that arpen is either stacked to the point where you rip through the opponent's armor, where it's too good against any level of armor. Or else you only have a little bit and it is significantly less useful than other stats.


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Burn the Witches

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by magik8ball View Post
You know, WoW actually had this exact same problem when they had an armor penetration stat.

What it boils down to is that arpen is either stacked to the point where you rip through the opponent's armor, where it's too good against any level of armor. Or else you only have a little bit and it is significantly less useful than other stats.
Again, as to what I was hinting at in my above post, I don't see the problem.

Armor penetration penetrates armor, right?
Health is not armor. Why would it penetrate health if that isn't its design?
A little bit of anything is typically useless anyway...


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Cloud Potato

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Yi View Post
100 armour is a small amount late game we are talking about how it hurt actual armour/mr items and most have 100 armour base
Lets say 200 Armor, being reduced to 100. 200 Armor is 66% damage reduction, and 100 Armor is 50% reduction. You go from dealing 33% damage to 50%, which is a 50% damage increase, which is as much of an increase as the AD BC gives you, if you have 100 AD. And if you bought this 100 Armor and had 100 base, you would be increasing your damage reduction from 33% to 50%, which is lowering the enemy damage by 25%.


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Fashbinder

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Senior Member

12-19-2012

AP can run 14mpen runes, boots, guise, abyssal + 8%. Every character should be running 100 MR or lose.

Bulwark is compulsory.

Yes, there are also combos for armor with jarvan/wukong and cleaver whisper. Again, 100 armor compulsory for all characters.

If not, get owned 1 shot and qq on gd.


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magik8ball

Senior Member

12-19-2012

The thing that makes arpen such a weird stat is that, unlike any other stat, arpen scales with your enemies' stats. This applies to both flat and scaling arpen because of diminishing returns. If an opponent has low armor, flat penetration increases their damage taken more than it does vs a high-armor target. Likewise, scaling arpen removes more armor depending on how high the opponent's armor value is - it essentially makes armor more inefficient.


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octavian1127

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Champion stacks penetration items = build a Warmogs
Champion stacks pure damage = build resistance

It seems pretty simple to me. In order to get those penetration items, you have to give up flat damage output.


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