Black Cleaver pt. 2

First Riot Post
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Krys Star

Member

12-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineRapierDT View Post
You have to think of things from a business perspective, not from a gratification perspective.

Hotfixing is dangerous, considering they can barely patch at predetermined times without chaos.

By waiting till that predetermined patch, they mine more data, get more user testing going. So calm your ****.

You want a simple fix to black cleaver? Let it keep its OP CDR, let it keep EVERYTHING... LET IT STACK WITH ITSELF....... and............... tadah:

Make it reduce attack speed. Make it a cumulative affect that stacking this item will reduce attack speed greater than 2/3/4x...(ex. 20% AS reduc, if two BC's, 44% etc)

Stop and think about that... wouldn't it really fix a lot of the problems? AND fit the theme of a giant cleaver?
Instead of trying to sound professional and intelligent, consider the fact Black Cleaver is nullifying ap mid, and urging players to go full ad. That's how broken it is, and hotFIXING it ISN'T a problem. It's a SOLUTION.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

12-12-2012

This is the Dominion sub-forum, feel free to engage in the billion BC threads on GD rather than discuss "AP Mids" here.


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Mapekz

Senior Member

12-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Alright, let's try this again.

Hypothetically, if... (ALL OF THE FOLLOWING HAPPENED)
1. Brutalizer's flat armor penetration did not stack with Black Cleaver or Ghostblade...
2. Black Cleaver's percent armor penetration were slightly nerfed...
3. And Brutalizer and BC's flat armor penetration are nerfed from 15 to 10...

Would it be OK to keep Black Cleaver on Dominion? Opinions, now!
1) Sounds good on paper but has nasty effects, i.e. if you were to build both Ghostblade and Black Cleaver you would be at a disadvantage in terms of gold invested. If the goal is to deter people from building both of those upper tier items in the same build (not recommended) this can be ignored.

What can be done instead is make the flat ArP of each of the three items passives unique to each item. That way Brutalizers don't stack, Ghostblades don't stack, and BC's don't stack, but 1 of each of those items can stack just fine. Since typically people would want to build their intermediary items into more powerful versions, people would be deterred from building three Brutalizers for the maximum flat ArP. However if they've already built a Ghostblade they won't be penalized building another Brutalizer to eventually turn into a Black Cleaver.

Another thing to consider is rearranging/solidly defining the stats on each item. It's clear the BC is a bruiser's weapon of choice as it gives them a little bit of everything they need with an emphasis on ArP whereas Ghostblade's emphasis should be slightly shifted from the ArP more towards its crit in order to bolster it's auto-attack steroid.

2) Fine by me. If people want to shred tons of armor they should really be relying on Last Whisper as that is the sole purpose of that item. Black Cleaver on the other hand is the ultimate item for all AD casters and bruisers as it gives them CDR, HP, damage, and ArP all in one; it shouldn't also be the pen-ultimate armor shredding item on top of all that.

3) I actually don't see a problem with this. Early game armor shred with Brutalizer is part of the reason why so many bruisers own early game and snowball into late. A slight nerf to the ArP may tone them down a bit. Notably abilities like Garen's Judgment and Pantheon's Heartseeker Strike are very dangerous even with just one Brutalizer.


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Chakos

Junior Member

12-13-2012

Eh, in the meantime just do what I do... report BC stacking players to the tribunal. "Unskilled Player" is a valid reason in the list, after all. Have to do the same thing for BFTeemos.

*rimshot!*


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Any updates on what will happen to Black Cleaver? It still seems way too strong for Dominion, even after the aura penetration removal.


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willoc

Junior Member

12-17-2012

It's been nerfed quite a lot Sylian. Nobody is stacking them anymore due to the unique attribute on the armor penn along with general nerfs to it's ability. Do you feel more needs to be done?


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Fox P McCloud

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Senior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by willoc View Post
It's been nerfed quite a lot Sylian. Nobody is stacking them anymore due to the unique attribute on the armor penn along with general nerfs to it's ability. Do you feel more needs to be done?
IMO the penetration on it shouldn't stack with Brutalizer or ghostblade, but that's me.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Stacking was an issue, but it was not the main issue. The main issue was that the item was too strong, and I feel that it still is too strong.


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Damieh

Senior Member

12-18-2012

brutalizer lost 33% of it's penetration =(. Sad day for me!