Black Cleaver pt. 2

First Riot Post
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LunarisDream

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Senior Member

12-09-2012

Ugh, Talon today with 3 BCs instagibbing our Amumu.

Scary stuff man, nerf.


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NavyGothic

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volandum View Post
There's plenty more MR reduction than just Kayle and Nid. Jayce and Karthus are two more examples, Heimer has flat reduction, as do Amumu, Morgana, Soraka, Ryze and Fiddlesticks.
There are 6 champs with % reduction or penetration;

15% Kayle, Karthus
25% Trundle (ultimate only), Jayce
40% Nidalee, Xerath (penetration)

There's plenty more with flat reduction, but flat reduction is very poor if the enemy counters by building heavy MR, so that's a non issue. Of the % champs, Jayce is the only problematic one (and that's not exactly news to anyone).

I feel magic damage / MR is in a pretty good place right now; void staff and champion-specific abilities allow you to remain competitive against MR stacking enemies, but MR still provides a significant amount of survivability (unlike armour right now).


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Veldashok

Junior Member

12-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Alright, let's try this again.
Hypothetically, if... (ALL OF THE FOLLOWING HAPPENED)
1. Brutalizer's flat armor penetration did not stack with Black Cleaver or Ghostblade...
2. Black Cleaver's percent armor penetration were slightly nerfed...
3. And Brutalizer and BC's flat armor penetration are nerfed from 15 to 10...
These changes seem like a step in the right direction to me, but I do have some questions/comments about the above points:

1. Would Black Cleaver, Ghostblade, AND Brutalizer share a unique name effect? Could I get Black Cleaver and Ghostblade?
2. I've heard it said that BC is too good at shredding high armor targets, something I agree with from some of the games I've played. The percentage armor shred definitely needs a nerf.
3. Why is Brutalizer taking a hit? Just wondering, is it because you want to make Ghostblade stronger by comparison? Or is Brutalizer just too strong? Or both?

As a side note, why is BC not a unique passive? I understand that it isn't gold viable to purchase two, since stacking four stacks is usually easy and is also a cap that can't be exceeded... But isn't building two BCs kind of a dummy / trap item choice then? When players build two BC's, it always hurts both his/her own play and his/her team's play, yet the complete lack of a unique passive seems to hint that owning two could be a creative and viable option, kind of like building two Phantom Dancers... Only it's not.


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Zeiro

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Senior Member

12-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyGothic View Post
There are 6 champs with % reduction or penetration;

15% Kayle, Karthus
25% Trundle (ultimate only), Jayce
40% Nidalee, Xerath (penetration)
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about Karthus.

I didn't put Jayce/Trundle in for MR % reduction/pen since they usually don't use the MPen/reduc much for themselves. At the same time, their abilities also reduce Armor, so it's more likely that they use the abilities for themselves, rather than set it up with a magic damage dealer. Jayce has one magic damage IIRC and it doesn't scale with how he is usually built.


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Chaosos

Senior Member

12-09-2012

1. Darius has 25% penetration at rank 5 of his E (for the above discussion)
2. Dominion generally just ends up discovering balance problems faster than SR, especially ones related to teamfighting or 1v1 capabilites because of how top and bot lane work. Basically, Black Cleaver's only potentially unique issue is that on dominion you have that penetration aura, which you're still removing, right?


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Warlord Buwberry

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Senior Member

12-09-2012

If brutalizer is going to be unique, i suggest making ghostblade build outta something else, because it will be gold inefficient to buy a cleaver and then buy a ghostblade, because the armor pen won't stack on the 2 items. Or how it was worded, brutalizer won't stack with ghostblade/cleaver anymore, but it sounds like cleaver and ghostblade armor pens stacks. It'd be weird if cleaver and brutalizer don't stack, but cleaver and ghostblade do.


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Torenia

Senior Member

12-10-2012

I forgot why they have not hotfixed this. Is it because it is more problematic with Dominion and hotfixing Dominion is a nono?


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George W Nome

Game Designer

12-10-2012
3 of 3 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torenia View Post
I forgot why they have not hotfixed this. Is it because it is more problematic with Dominion and hotfixing Dominion is a nono?
Hotfixes are usually reserved for game-breaking bugs, not balance issues.

The BC nerfs will be in the next patch, which is coming soon™.


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Torenia

Senior Member

12-10-2012

I see, thanks for the reply, I eagerly wait for this day to come~


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Drisco

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Member

12-10-2012

Games not even fun anymore with this BC ****. Whoever has the better Cleaver Team wins. So stupid. Just gonna wait till the patch before I play.