Rengar needs attention.

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Varaxael

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Well, the good news is that Rengar feels fixed! The bad news is, he feels like he got fixed at the veterinarian's office. He's still playable - despite a certain stiffness and a sometimes irresistible urge to scratch the stitches and mourn what was lost, he goes about his business much like before. But he lacks that certain dash.

Emasculation does that to a guy.

At this point you've probably decided that I'm complaining about the nerfs. The many, many nerfs. But that's not the case. Aside from the 20% nerf to Bonetooth Necklace's damage component, I think they made sense; that 250% ratio on Savagery scaled way too well into the late game.

Now, however, the things that made Jungle Rengar powerful feel much-reduced. In essence, it's not Rengar which has changed, but that he simply doesn't interact well with the new jungle, new items, and new masteries. I don't feel that Rengar is able to do his job well enough in the jungle any longer to really be a good champion. Sure, I can pressure the lanes and get kills; I can finish off enemy players if I position well, but I'm not able to really jump in and burst people any more unless I want to die horribly and fast.

That Alpha Predator feel that attracted me to Rengar in the first place is gone.

First: Ganking damage has been reduced. To eliminate the jungler's ability to camp lanes while still clearing his camps, the difficulty of jungle creeps has been increased, and the Hunter's Machete feels mandatory - but it does no damage to players. Madred's razors, the next item up, STILL deals no damage to players. You don't get any player damage at all till you buy the Vampiric Scepter component for Wriggle's Lantern. This leaves you far behind on damage when you start to gank, because the enemy lane champions probably aren't buying dedicated jungle items. So assuming they're not using the excellent warding options now available, and you catch them overextended, you still have a much harder time achieving the kill. The difference is minor, but it's noticeable, and affects you for the entire game, especially since...

Second, it's freaking hard, in general, to catch people these days. Between the movement speed buff to everyone, the 7.5%-15% snare reduction Mastery (depending on points used,) the new options on boots, movement speed Masteries, the reduction of snare items' effectiveness, and the nerf to (especially early) ganking damage, it's quite simply very hard to catch people and kill them before they reach their tower, even with snare items like Phage and Frozen Mallet. Now, it's not that I can't ever catch people, and certainly it shouldn't be impossible to get away from someone just because they bought Frozen Mallet and your Flash is down, but it's still a noticeable increase in survivability against ganks. And of course...

Finally, jungling is much more dangerous now. The increased difficulty and reward scaling causes junglers to be at less than full health a lot more of the time, and for longer in the game. This is, of course, intended, and I think it's a good idea. But for a champion who has no true escapes once his ultimate is down (and really wants to use the ult to kill things anyway) this is a huge increase to the risk of ganking - and the reward for that level of risk doesn't feel like it's there.

So to summarize; I like the new jungle, I like the new items, and I like the new Masteries. But I don't think Jungle Rengar has weathered the changes very well. The reduced effectiveness of his Bola Strike, a substantial reduction in damage during much of his laning phase, and substantially increased risk (due to chronically low hp and lack of escapes) of committing to a gank are significantly reducing his effectiveness in the Jungling role -where he used to be considered the strongest.


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

12-09-2012

He was a top pick and ban at the IPL.

Are so many Rengar players this stupid?

Rengar was always better at top lane than the jungle as well.


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Varaxael

Senior Member

12-09-2012

I've preferred him as top lane myself, but that's not the general consensus.

However, your insult, aside from being a violation of the Summoner's Code on these forums, is foolish and poorly reasoned. IPL5 was played on the Elise patch, not the current jungle. Not to mention that the vast majority of us are not pro players and will not have the same interactions with the game.

If your entire contribution to the conversation is to hurl insults based on what you heard "the pros" are doing, please save us all the trouble of ignoring you and go away.


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varaxael View Post
I've preferred him as top lane myself, but that's not the general consensus.

However, your insult, aside from being a violation of the Summoner's Code on these forums, is foolish and poorly reasoned. IPL5 was played on the Elise patch, not the current jungle. Not to mention that the vast majority of us are not pro players and will not have the same interactions with the game.

If your entire contribution to the conversation is to hurl insults based on what you heard "the pros" are doing, please save us all the trouble of ignoring you and go away.
Okay, okay, not IPL, the last tournament while Zed has been the big thing, I don't know why I called it IPL... OH WAIT!

I hurled a total of ONE very, very deserved implication, at someone who is getting sad about not facerolling anymore with a champion who is AS OF THE PATCH JUST BEFORE NAMI, AKA A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO considered quite a strong pick. Conversely, your entire contribution in your last post HAS been to deride me, mostly just because you disagree with me, considering all the incredible exaggerations you're making.

I'm not saying things might not have changed with the jungle, but again, I've seen more Rengars top in all levels of play, even if he is "supposed" to be a jungler. Who's not keeping up with the times again?

I would advise you to put your butt-hurt exaggerating victimization train into reverse and rethink at least once before continuing your present course of action.

I should add, last of all, that my insult, is NOT a violation of the summoner's code, being, as it was, only an insinuation and not a direct insult. Hell, even direct insults are not necessarily violations of the summoner's code. Cut the victimization routine already.


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Varaxael

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Again, you mistake abuse for thought, and your only contribution is to rage at me for a thought-out post. You offer no reasoning beyond a factually incorrect assertion that "the pros" think something, based on a tournament you can't identify.

Then you go on to "rebut" my objection to your abuse by claiming that I "deserved" your insult, admitting that you're ignorant about the jungle, and then claiming that it doesn't matter because you want to talk about top.

My "butt-hurt exaggerating victimization train" is rolling right over your feeble objections and ignoring anything you say from here on in.


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alfavhunter

Senior Member

12-09-2012

how to fix rengar for jungler that will not effect a lane rengar

alter Unseen Predator to also cause him to take 20% less damage from non hostile (jungle minions) mobs

and he now has a little more sustain in lane and he is now a viable jungler

i played him with movement armor ad MR runes ind tried him in jungle, and he barly kept above 100 hp using the mechaty 5 potion set, but after that he could keep himself up around that 100 hp but not really gaining, so with this change he will be able to fight jungle with a bit better sustain early on, and then later on (the level 4-8 range) have enough to heal himself just slightly if he focuses on healing instead of damage / clear speed which is how he should do it because of his squishieness while jungling at early levels


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Onimus Terlain

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Senior Member

12-09-2012

Rengar is still a top pick.

Stop *****ing.


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Varaxael

Senior Member

12-09-2012

If you have nothing useful to contribute, please refrain from trolling.


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Bus Driver

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Senior Member

12-09-2012

hes still amazing actually, especially with s3


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Jesus the Friend

Member

12-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varaxael View Post
If you have nothing useful to contribute, please refrain from trolling.
If you do not understand the meaning of the word, please refrain from using it.
The guy was not trolling, Rengar was overwhelmingly too strong and is in a better spot now.

You are an embarrassment to the LoL community for making this thread/these posts.


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